The Real Thanksgiving Story

[Eldritch]

If you can't understand how falsifying history to aggrandize your own mediocre achievements and diminish those of the conquered and whitewashing over their bloody genocide is a form of racial dominance, perhaps you will understand it in meme form.

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The people of the United Kingdom are not a Race. The people of the Colonies in the Americas were not a race.

Nations throughout history all around the world all rewrite history from their own perspective to suit their identity as a nation and justify the actions of their people. Suddenly where the United States does it in certain cases the practice is based in an effort to express Racial Superiority? It is just an absurd proposition. I insist that if the Native Americans were of European descent and not Asians, the process would have been the same. There are literal examples of this happening in Europe.

Why are Italians upset when they take down Christopher Colombus statues? It's tradition to honor the dude who DISCOVERED MOTHERFUCKING AMERICA.

The British love murdering foxes with dogs and horses, but it's a tradition, not animal abuse!

He did not discover it.

However the Italians upset about the Columbus Statues has more to do with Italian Americans and the Cultural Pride developed in the tradition of Columbus day. Columbus was kind of a mercenary shit, this should just very easily be resolved by changing Columbus Day to Italian American Heritage Day or some such shit and all traditions can continue with very minor changes.

People trying to take the day away from Italians and give it to some one else are just picking a fight for no good reason.

 

[HappyHighwayman]

He did not discover it.

However the Italians upset about the Columbus Statues has more to do with Italian Americans and the Cultural Pride developed in the tradition of Columbus day. Columbus was kind of a mercenary shit, this should just very easily be resolved by changing Columbus Day to Italian American Heritage Day or some such shit and all traditions can continue with very minor changes.

People trying to take the day away from Italians and give it to some one else are just picking a fight for no good reason.

No shit lol

It's not picking a fight to want to stop honoring a man who didn't discover anything and did murder everyone he found when he got there.

October is already Italian American Heritage fucking MONTH, sorry they want to hold onto a bad person.

 

[Eldritch]

No shit lol

It's not picking a fight to want to stop honoring a man who didn't discover anything and did murder everyone he found when he got there.

October is already Italian American Heritage fucking MONTH, sorry they want to hold onto a bad person.

Yeah, I think the beef is much more people trying take the day away and call it Indigenous People's Day, which is just a disaster. If Natives want to have their own day, great, they should have one, but they can't have the one the Italians earned. I remember some people floating around the idea of the Friday after thanksgiving as a good day for it, and I thought that was a brilliant solution.

 

[HappyHighwayman]

Oh I get you now.

Just out of curiosity how was Columbus day "earned"?

 

[Eldritch]

Oh I get you now.

Just out of curiosity how was Columbus day "earned"?

By the successful integration of Italians into American society and the democratic process. They mass migrated here mainly in the early 1900's prior to WWI. Italian immigrants, which previously had been given a lot of prejudice for being Catholic and not speaking English, integrated, adopted American customs, and became an important enough factor in the work force to get themselves declared a national holiday in the late 1930's.

The Italian Immigration closely followed the pattern of Irish immigration 50 years earlier, but since the Irish spoke a language similar to English, they did not face as severe a prejudice and their holiday was never made a federal event.

 

[HappyHighwayman]

Thank you very educational. You make a lot of sense.

 

[TylerW]

earned.

:laughing :laughing :laughing
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

Dude, you refuse to get it, and I'm tired of explaining it to you.

Especially as one who has esposed your own white supremacist values here.

 

[Eldritch]

esposed your own white supremacist values here.

That is so outrageous and perhaps even hurtful, I just don't even know how to respond. I suppose based on your statement, there is no reason for me to try. That is sad to me.

 

[TylerW]

That is so outrageous and perhaps even hurtful, I just don't even know how to respond. I suppose based on your statement, there is no reason for me to try. That is sad to me.

You are welcome to receive it as your want. As a longtime acquientence of yours, it hurt to see it.

To speak in specifics: you have projected that anyone who does not conform to white, north american mores are savages, and any other cultures are incorrect.

 

[bikewanker]

You are welcome to receive it as your want. As a longtime acquientence of yours, it hurt to see it.

To speak in specifics: you have projected that anyone who does not conform to white, north american mores are savages, and any other cultures are incorrect.

? My reading comprehension must really suck! However I do get the part about you being an agitator.

 

[Eldritch]

You are welcome to receive it as your want. As a longtime acquientence of yours, it hurt to see it.

To speak in specifics: you have projected that anyone who does not conform to white, north american mores are savages, and any other cultures are incorrect.

This is 100% a flat out lie. :dunno

 

[TylerW]

This is 100% a flat out lie. :dunno

No lie. Your words, dude.

 

[Bay Arean]

This is 100% a flat out lie. :dunno

I agree. I don't get it. I read your posts and I see you taking the time to explain what you mean, only to be met with vague one-liners and this chronic accusation. I don't understand what Tyler is so wound up about. Just seems like virtue signalling in extremis on behalf of NA natives but the entire point of taking the time to explain what the holiday consists of is lost in this chronic grievance and disavowal.

Teaching history is considered essential to understand the present.Unless we erase and ban the holiday altogether, there will always be those who will have curiousity of how it came to be. It is NOT an expression of white supremacy to explain how it came about; it is just incumbent to "contextualize it" as we do so with so many things now that we have evolved away from Englightenment-era racism. Well, some have, anyway.

As I ponder it, I wonder: is the objection that anyone can make anything good about it (via family gatherings, actual expressions of thankfulness) given the eventual effect on native peoples? In other words, we just shouldn't have anything to do with it as a notion, rather than transform it into something that is meaningful?

 

[Cali]

To speak in specifics: you have projected that anyone who does not conform to white, north american mores are savages, and any other cultures are incorrect.

Care to back up such an accusation? Or do you have a personal issue with him?

 

[afm199]

I agree. I don't get it. I read your posts and I see you taking the time to explain what you mean, only to be met with vague one-liners and this chronic accusation. I don't understand what Tyler is so wound up about. Just seems like virtue signalling in extremis on behalf of NA natives but the entire point of taking the time to explain what the holiday consists of is lost in this chronic grievance and disavowal.

Teaching history is considered essential to understand the present.Unless we erase and ban the holiday altogether, there will always be those who will have curiousity of how it came to be. It is NOT an expression of white supremacy to explain how it came about; it is just incumbent to "contextualize it" as we do so with so many things now that we have evolved away from Englightenment-era racism. Well, some have, anyway.

As I ponder it, I wonder: is the objection that anyone can make anything good about it (via family gatherings, actual expressions of thankfulness) given the eventual effect on native peoples? In other words, we just shouldn't have anything to do with it as a notion, rather than transform it into something that is meaningful?

I pretty much ignore most of what Tyler says. He's so full of PC SJW hodge podge pedagogy that any attempt to parse his statements results in a massive cognitive dissonance headache.

 

[Bay Arean]

I pretty much ignore most of what Tyler says. He's so full of PC SJW hodge podge pedagogy that any attempt to parse his statements results in a massive cognitive dissonance headache.

I want the forum to "Be Best.":laughing

Let's be fellows, here, please (male and female).

 

[ctwo]

it's hard to be fellows when the active community does not believe that American is a thing and they despise American evolution and a particular race behind it. It's like watching a nation self destruct.

 

[TylerW]

Care to back up such an accusation? Or do you have a personal issue with him?

I spent around 20 minutes searching through old posts from earlier this year, but came up empty handed. It's entirely possible that the thread disappeared into the polsink.

The discussion was around whether or not immigrants to this country should hold onto their cultural traditions and values from 'the old country' or if they should assimilate to the cultural norms of the United States. Eldritch said, essentially that there is no value in multi culturalism, only chaos - and that the sooner they abandoned their "wrong" culture and assimilated into ours, the sooner they could be a part of 'civilized' society.

pretty dark words that stuck with me. I wasn't able to ask for context then because I was on a break.

 

[byke]

It is true that diversity is not a universal positive, at least not for who-knows-how-many-years-because-we're-not-there-yet. Many other countries do better than us because of a shared history/experience that leads to a much more aligned vision of the future. We're essentially the opposite, with so many different experiences that we couldn't possibly have a shared vision of the future.

 

[TylerW]

It is true that diversity is not a universal positive, at least not for who-knows-how-many-years-because-we're-not-there-yet. Many other countries do better than us because of a shared history/experience that leads to a much more aligned vision of the future. We're essentially the opposite, with so many different experiences that we couldn't possibly have a shared vision of the future.

Its true that cultural differences can and often do lead to friction, but monocultures are sad and boring. I'd rather have that friction and work past it.

The food is tastier, too.