Cripple Triple

[MZarra]

have you seen any guys get this done to a 13+ zx6r? or will i have to figure everything out on my own?

Shouldn't be that much different. The goal is to put on a dummy injector for one cylinder so it isn't getting fuel. Some starting questions:

Does it have shower injectors?

Does it have one shower injector per cylinder?

What happens when you pull an injector. Does it throw a code?

There are some of us who like to tinker with these mods and I am sure someone would be happy to help.

 

[uncle_nospeed]

Are you going to be racing this season?

Not this season, when I get back I plan on practicing for the remainder of the year. Then try for the 2018 season :teeth:

 

[ircsmith]

Not this season, when I get back I plan on practicing for the remainder of the year. Then try for the 2018 season :teeth:

no better practice than doing a race! come join the fun.

 

[ircsmith]

Marcus you are waaaay off base here! there is no way in hell those trophies are worth $5

 

[Stalerice]

Buttonwillow roll call. I'll be debuting my CBR450rr Round 1. Who else is showing up? Weather looks to be warm.

Nick

 

[ACA]

Buttonwillow roll call. I'll be debuting my CBR450rr Round 1. Who else is showing up? Weather looks to be warm.

Nick

I'll be there!

 

[MZarra]

I should be there on Friday. Will definitely be there Saturday and Sunday!

 

[FXCLM5]

Seems like a waste of a competitive machine. :dunno

well originally i met a guy @ a trackday and he said it was "in the works" that bikes will be able to be flashed from a 450/600 via ecu only. - like its already been done or something

afm tech would still need a physical disable per the rules, i understand that

but think of the day, you could have the ability to flash from 600/450 via a laptop in mins and have afm validate it via some technical led that displays what map its on.

 

[MZarra]

well originally i met a guy @ a trackday and he said it was "in the works" that bikes will be able to be flashed from a 450/600 via ecu only. - like its already been done or something

afm tech would still need a physical disable per the rules, i understand that

but think of the day, you could have the ability to flash from 600/450 via a laptop in mins and have afm validate it via some technical led that displays what map its on.

I seriously doubt we are ever going to see a software only option allowed in racing; whether it is AFM or another club. Just too easy to manipulate things at that level. Just imagine an ECU programmed to fire that fourth cylinder on every fourth rotation. Sounds like a 450 but ...

The better option, in my opinion, is a physical switch. Locate the switch under the tail or some other place that is not accessible while riding and bob's your uncle.

Undo your undertail, flip a switch and you are now a 600. Way easier than having to plug in a laptop to change the configuration inside of the ECU.

 

[scotinexcile]

It will always need to be a physical disablement

Just put one of these in line https://www.dimensionengineering.com/products/picoswitch

Radio transmitter in the pits to turn it on and then off before you get back to the pits

You know someone is going to try it If someone thinks they can put a 750 motor in a 600 chassis and race it and not get caught!!!!!

Pain the exhaust header on the disabled cylinder with heat sensitive paint, check every 450 that comes off track after a race. Wrong color, DQ right away, banned for the rest of the season. Oh cant do that, the club would loose revenue, so probably a slap on the wrist and see you next round :afm199

 

[MZarra]

Just put one of these in line https://www.dimensionengineering.com/products/picoswitch

Radio transmitter in the pits to turn it on and then off before you get back to the pits

You know someone is going to try it If someone thinks they can put a 750 motor in a 600 chassis and race it and not get caught!!!!!

Pain the exhaust header on the disabled cylinder with heat sensitive paint, check every 450 that comes off track after a race. Wrong color, DQ right away, banned for the rest of the season. Oh cant do that, the club would loose revenue, so probably a slap on the wrist and see you next round :afm199

I remember some of the 750 in a 600 frame drama

The other racers will hear it and then the offender will have a LOT more to worry about than just getting a DQ

 

[ircsmith]

but I only have three header pipes coming out of my 450. now what ?

Just put one of these in line https://www.dimensionengineering.com/products/picoswitch

Radio transmitter in the pits to turn it on and then off before you get back to the pits

You know someone is going to try it If someone thinks they can put a 750 motor in a 600 chassis and race it and not get caught!!!!!

Pain the exhaust header on the disabled cylinder with heat sensitive paint, check every 450 that comes off track after a race. Wrong color, DQ right away, banned for the rest of the season. Oh cant do that, the club would loose revenue, so probably a slap on the wrist and see you next round :afm199

 

[jbawden]

I seriously doubt we are ever going to see a software only option allowed in racing; whether it is AFM or another club. Just too easy to manipulate things at that level. Just imagine an ECU programmed to fire that fourth cylinder on every fourth rotation. Sounds like a 450 but ...

The better option, in my opinion, is a physical switch. Locate the switch under the tail or some other place that is not accessible while riding and bob's your uncle.

Undo your undertail, flip a switch and you are now a 600. Way easier than having to plug in a laptop to change the configuration inside of the ECU.

Only problem is during the 30 minute protest period after the race how does tech verify the state of the bike during the race? Software, switch, and related makes it impossible to know. You would have to put all the 450's into some kind of parc ferme which would be impractical on a variety of levels.

It's not an indictment on the integrity of the 450 group to say a switch or software solution isn't acceptable, tech simply needs an indisputable method of verification like you would with measuring bore or stroke for instance.

 

[ACA]

Only problem is during the 30 minute protest period after the race how does tech verify the state of the bike during the race? Software, switch, and related makes it impossible to know. You would have to put all the 450's into some kind of parc ferme which would be impractical on a variety of levels.

It's not an indictment on the integrity of the 450 group to say a switch or software solution isn't acceptable, tech simply needs an indisputable method of verification like you would with measuring bore or stroke for instance.

Thanks for not indicting us! Regarding indisputable verification, you could always trace the wires if you really wanted to or check continuity at the injector. This would have to be done before the switch could be thrown, of course.

Regarding parc ferme, the same thing could be said for a lot of things that can happen in 30 minutes: swap wheels, swap master cylinder, swap forks, pull header tape, pull nitrous kit, remove rocket launcher.

I guess my point is that there are a lot of ways to cheat and they are not exclusive to this class or verifiable without immediate confiscation.

 

[Shaggy]

Temp gun on the headers at track exit would be an easy way to verify, no? I've seen Tech do spot checks on master cylinders and other stuff upon track exit.

 

[ACA]

Temp gun on the headers at track exit would be an easy way to verify, no? I've seen Tech do spot checks on master cylinders and other stuff upon track exit.

Yeah that works. Or spray bottle.

 

[MZarra]

Only problem is during the 30 minute protest period after the race how does tech verify the state of the bike during the race? Software, switch, and related makes it impossible to know. You would have to put all the 450's into some kind of parc ferme which would be impractical on a variety of levels.

It's not an indictment on the integrity of the 450 group to say a switch or software solution isn't acceptable, tech simply needs an indisputable method of verification like you would with measuring bore or stroke for instance.

Even after 30 minutes, the headers are going to be a different temp. That is even assuming the protest takes 30 minutes to file and verify.

But again, running a 600 against 450s will be extremely noticeable. You can hear the difference between them in the paddock and at speed. It is easy to tell as they roll back into the pits.

This is not something that can be hidden like an overbore or a polished head, etc. There is a night and day difference.

The difference between a 450 and a 600 is also not a 5% performance increase or something like that. It is a 50% horsepower increase. Not subtle in any way shape or form.

If we are talking about a button on the handlebars, Charles is correct. Easy to trace; easier than a tear down looking for an overbore.

 

[Corey]

Is anyone doing this, or does anyone plan to race their 450 in a 600 class? Is it legal in 600 Prod? is it competitive in 600 Superbike?

 

[jbawden]

I don't speak officially for tech, this is just my opinion on the topic.

I get why the switch solution is appealing to racers and how it benefits AFM by more entries. And yes, a cheater may be obvious to those out on the track and maybe a few keen observers, but put yourself in the shoes of tech that now has to make a judgement call based on subjective data (how much cooler should the dead cylinder be on a 108* Thunderhill afternoon for instance?).

Yeah yeah we're all out there for fun but you might be surprised how much passion and emotion makes its way to tech when a plastic trophy is on the line. With the switch solution the burden is on tech to make an judgement call that may undermine the integrity of the class championship and result in a 43 page thread on BARF about how shitty AFM is. To me indisputable verification is at the heart of the matter. Whether or not someone would go to the effort of an elaborate (or it may be simple) cheater system is mostly irrelevant, because its plausible and we would have to deal with it.

Additionally, tech largely relies on fellow racers to bring rule breakers to our attention, which is why you see us at track exit from time to time easily checking for specific items and occasionally staying late to tear down a motor.

 

[ACA]

Hi Jon, I totally understand your position. When I first proposed the switch at a board meeting, I volunteered to help tech with any protest. Obviously I would recuse myself if I were involved, but I think you'll find that a lot of the 450 crew would help.

Knowing what we are trying to do, what would help tech make the indisputable call?