Cripple Triple

slummy

Well-known member
First, see you all there at BW with my 65 hp class-slowest r6.

Second, no one is going to cheat the 450 races by running an extra cylinder. If i'm going *there*, i'm just running an R1 with a 450 sticker.

There are always ways to cheat in a class. Catching cheaters, from my limited understanding, mostly is initiated by complaints by fellow racers. Tech is then able to verify that there was/was-not something shady. So, tech has to be able to do that, with some degree of confidence. In some classes, that means mechanical tear-down. For us, I think it's going to be more like a tear down of the wiring harness. I can imagine burying a receiver somewhere under the tank and activating it via a fob hidden in my glove. I can imagine that the circuit to the cheater cylinder could be controlled by arduino or similar. But really? It's going to be so obvious to run an extra cylinder. But what about the case in which the cheater-cylinder is fired occasionally, like Marcus suggests. That's harder to catch. Hence, there will be the need/option to tear-down the wiring of a bike.

Any extra boxes in the wiring harness would need to be validated. And extra scrutiny will need to be given to the injector circuits -- checking for auduino and similar is not enough. For instance, I believe that I could send a signal out from some data-loggers to open a circuit.

We will need to work with tech for our class to stay credible considering the improvements we want to evolve.

---

How do we know if a bike is making great power because of legal development vs cheater-cylinder. That's kinda gray. I know there's one bike which is up almost 10% on other bikes -- but knowing the rider, I *don't* suspect that it's firing the cheater-cylinder at partial duty. But what if I didn't know the rider ???
 

slummy

Well-known member
one thing more about switches -- they fail. So, the broken state of the switch will need to be 450.
 

ChampR1

Well-known member
Seems the simple solution to cheater vs non cheater would be to require no spark plug on the dead cylinder.. easy enough to put back for next race (maybe not back to back).
 

MZarra

AFM Treasurer
Seems the simple solution to cheater vs non cheater would be to require no spark plug on the dead cylinder.. easy enough to put back for next race (maybe not back to back).

Why?

The only way to check for a pulled spark plug is to do a partial tear down. If you are going to go that far in a tear down you will find the disabled fuel LONG before you get through the air box.

There is no reason to require a pulled spark plug.

Re-installing a spark plug is FAR more involved than reconnecting an injector or flipping a switch. Most modern sport bikes require you to completely pull the air box to get to the spark plugs.

Non-trivial in the middle of the pits between races while trying to prepare for another race and hoping you didn't miss anything.

The rules as they stand are sufficient. We do NOT need to create more rules and make the class complicated.
 

slummy

Well-known member
The injector method is totally sufficient. It is functionally as permanent as a cam-grind, relative to the cheating issue. There were no problems last year. And as I read the rules, it's a legal method. There's no reason to change anything. There is currently no problem to fix.
 

jer

New member
Anyone do the injector bypass method with a 2011+ GSXR?

I've done a bunch of track days and have been thinking about taking a crack at racing AFM - this 450 cripple thing seems like a blast and a good way to start.
 

MZarra

AFM Treasurer
Anyone do the injector bypass method with a 2011+ GSXR?

I've done a bunch of track days and have been thinking about taking a crack at racing AFM - this 450 cripple thing seems like a blast and a good way to start.

The 450s are a blast and the crowd is decent as well :)

I believe a few people have done it on the GSXR. I run an R6 myself but if I recall correctly the newish GSXR isn't much different as far as shower injectors and primary injectors.

If no one chimes in I am sure we can arrange some time at the track to tinker...
 

slummy

Well-known member
AFM seems a little thin this year in general; 450's too. But there's definitely still a grid and the racing is competitive and fun.

I still think it's a great platform after 4 years.

owen/orville
423
 

The Villain

Not From These Parts
50/50 chance I'll be diving into this class next season. Important test coming up at Laguna on the #510 machine...
 

ircsmith

Well-known member
have to miss that Laguna day. have fun on Carlos's bike. once you ride it I'm sure you will be more like 90/10. 450 riders are the coolest. we have the best hp to time ratio. but seriously I think its the best platform to learn on.
 

dangerzone02

Well-known member
Hi all, just picked up a 05 r6 track bike. The 450 triple site seems to be down now. So what's the best way to do this on my bike? Thanks!
 

MZarra

AFM Treasurer
Hi all, just picked up a 05 r6 track bike. The 450 triple site seems to be down now. So what's the best way to do this on my bike? Thanks!

If I remember correctly, the 2005 R6 does not have shower injectors. If that memory is correct then you just need to unplug the injector in your cylinder of choice, plug in a spare injector (preferably capped with fluid in it; I use old brake fluid) and Bob's your uncle.

If you are going to do a dyno run and fuel map, do it as a 600, not a 450.

The last thing is to find your right gearing. Going up 2-3 teeth from 600 mode is a great starting place.

Enjoy and we will see you on the grid!
 

dangerzone02

Well-known member
If I remember correctly, the 2005 R6 does not have shower injectors. If that memory is correct then you just need to unplug the injector in your cylinder of choice, plug in a spare injector (preferably capped with fluid in it; I use old brake fluid) and Bob's your uncle.

If you are going to do a dyno run and fuel map, do it as a 600, not a 450.

The last thing is to find your right gearing. Going up 2-3 teeth from 600 mode is a great starting place.

Enjoy and we will see you on the grid!

Thanks for the quick response! How do I figure out the shower injector? The part # is 5SL-13761-00-00. Link here: https://www.partzilla.com/product/yamaha/5SL-13761-00-00

Does anybody have an extra/old 5SL-13761-00-00?
 

MZarra

AFM Treasurer
Ah nevermind. Sorry, the bike is new to me. When you say shower injector you mean the upper one that squirts additional fuel at higher RPMs. I don't think the gen 2 or r6s has those.

Correct, that is what I was saying. There are NO shower injectors before 2006 :)

That means you just need to disconnect the MAIN fuel injector for the cylinder you are disabling and plug in a dummy.

First, do not buy a new injector for this. They are crazy expensive!

Buy one off eBay, or even better, buy a set of velocity stacks off eBay, cheaper that way.

Remove one injector from your now spare stacks and plug that into the connection you just disconnected on the bike.

Now you are a 450!

There is some concern by some people that the "dummy" injector can overheat. No one has proved this demonstrably but also no one wants to. Thus the recommendation to a cap on each end of that injector (I use vacuum caps from the auto parts store) and fill those caps with a liquid (NOT FUEL). The theory is that the liquid will keep the injector at normal operating temp.
 

dangerzone02

Well-known member
Correct, that is what I was saying. There are NO shower injectors before 2006 :)

That means you just need to disconnect the MAIN fuel injector for the cylinder you are disabling and plug in a dummy.

First, do not buy a new injector for this. They are crazy expensive!

Buy one off eBay, or even better, buy a set of velocity stacks off eBay, cheaper that way.

Remove one injector from your now spare stacks and plug that into the connection you just disconnected on the bike.

Now you are a 450!

There is some concern by some people that the "dummy" injector can overheat. No one has proved this demonstrably but also no one wants to. Thus the recommendation to a cap on each end of that injector (I use vacuum caps from the auto parts store) and fill those caps with a liquid (NOT FUEL). The theory is that the liquid will keep the injector at normal operating temp.

Can't believe how expensive those injectors are! Thanks for all the help. I'll probably cap it with distilled water. Can't wait to get this thing on the track!!!
 

dangerzone02

Well-known member
And it’s complete! Very easy on the gen 2 R6 or R6S. This is going to be a lot of fun! Thanks for all the help.

FYI gen 2 and R6S only needs 1 “dummy” injector. I picked up a full throttle body assembly for $50 on fleabay. Definitely the way to go when sourcing injectors.
 

OVerLoRDI

Well-known member
Picked up an 05 GSXR 600 cripple triple recently and did my first track day on it. Very fun, I'll see you guys out there.
 
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