What is keeping the locals off the MA grid??

budman

budman

General Menace
Staff member
When I was racing in the 80’s a bunch of AFM regulars would jump into the AMA PRO series. I did a few. It was awesome to line up with TV cameras on the start grid and be on the grid with Doug Chandler, Russell, Duhamel etc.

I know for a while that the AMA rules changed to not allow racers to hit a club race within a month or two of the National and that kind of killed the privateer effort.

Not sure that is still the case, but we don’t see the fastest AFM dudes on the grid much. There was a couple but the amount is small. The Superbike grid did not include any.

Wondering why??

Too much $$
Not worth the $$$
Still rules in place??

I think that actually hurts attendance a bit. Hurts the show a bit.

Any racers want to chime in??
 
Kalvin00

Kalvin00

Well-known member
I personally don't have enough races to qualify for a license... but i'm guessing it's because it is a big PITA.

Spec tires, fuel (testing and mapping for these), MA specific rules for the motorcycle, crew shirts, logos, etc... all the little stuff adds up to a big burden.

I know that I would have to switch fork cartridges since mine aren't homologated, so there's $1K if I want to enter and be legal right off the top.
 
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horsepower

horsepower

WaterRider/Landsurfer
Kalvin00 said:
I personally don't have enough races to qualify for a license... but i'm guessing it's because it is a big PITA.

Spec tires, fuel (testing and mapping for these), MA specific rules for the motorcycle, crew shirts, logos, etc... all the little stuff adds up to a big burden.

I know that I would have to switch fork cartridges since mine aren't homologated, so there's $1K if I want to enter and be legal right off the top.
Click to expand...
Are we talking to be top 3 competitive? then it’s money and all of the “necessities “ listed above .
But other than that the reality of privateers racing for fun seems to be lost on the AMA and to be honest , I actually think that watching 1:48-1:50 Sonoma laps in AMA racing takes away from the fairytale for me. What is there to aspire to other than filling up a grid? “Racing just to race” is best left for lower level racingIMHO. Being a little fish in a big pond makes the little fish faster, but the big fish could eat you alive and your reputation with it. :laughing
Other than the forks , tires and some decent lap times , privateers don’t need all the “stuff” but few want to spend their own money to risk it all for the win without any back up.
And it can’t be the “lack of locals “ keeping crowds down as Baubier and Fong are local yet few come to watch; crowds are down because few people care about what it takes to keep a passion alive or how to support and keep that passion growing.

All that said , there are some top Afmers whom I would love to see go kick some ass out there- and they could too! Bobby Fong is a great example of a privateer local who did exactly that; it was always thrilling to watch him be a threat to the hierarchy -with or without the show.
 
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FourThreeSix

FourThreeSix

Tall Guy on a Little Bike
Cost was mine, but I wouldn't consider myself a top AFMer either.

It's been a goal of mine to do a MotoAmerica round again since we did the Formula IV exhibition race with AFM/MA a few years back. While it wasn't a full-blown MotoAmerica experience, it did give me a taste of what it was like and I've wanted to come back on the 600 ever since. Unfortunately, between the license fee, entry fee, tire budget, credentials, and a lot of little miscellaneous things that are required, it just wasn't in the cards. I probably could have made it happen, but it would have been tight and I would have probably had to forego the remainder of the AFM season to do it.

Hoping to be in a better position (financially and from a riding standpoint) to make a go at it next year for a round or 3. :thumbup
 
FXCLM5

FXCLM5

bombaclaud
rules must have gotten crazier with MA?

i was a pit team for a co-worker in 09 running ama supersport @ sears, he raced for 1 season up in oregon/washington and was a regular podium contender,

he was able to drag another (old coworker) of his down to race and he did not qualify with a 152 lap time.

imo its all $$$, i recall they were extremely unpleased that their competitors was throwing 1k+ into tires for that specific weekend and they weren't (and were not competitve due to it), he was also unpleased that the entire pit crew had to ahve ama membership (i already was) and anyone on pit-row, had to be wearing team colors, so yea he had to go buy abuncha kawi team button up shirts just so we can support him out on pit.....

also he spent $ on new leathers to get patches due to ama rules as well, the guy was very well off, he had a quarter million RV that he rolled out, but still he raced this once and that was it, just to say he did a professional race - overall it accomplished his goal that he set out, race in a pro series, but did not continue it, also the race was subpar - lotsa red flags and restarts and the amount of $ thrown into was not worth it for him in the end.
 
stangmx13

stangmx13

not Stan
unfortunately, needing a larger fuel tank will keep most locals out of SBK. plus, club-rules SBKs arent always legal for MA SBK since the bottom end of the engine must be OEM. theres also very few AFMers that could qualify for SBK. Cam and Toni are just too fast.

for all classes, the extra MA-only stuff isn't a huge barrier for entry. license, pit shirts, 2 crew with passes, pit cart, radio, and patches on leathers come out to ~$700 and a few days of work/planning. in racing terms, $700 isnt a lot. plus you can re-use most of that. the rest of the cost for a weekend is comparable to club racing if you do MA on the cheap. club entry fees are actually more expensive in per lap cost for some classes.

MA can be expensive because you get a lot of track time and need the tires for it. if you made the cutoff for SS at Sonoma, you'd get 38 race laps plus 90min of practice time. in club terms, thats approximately 6 races and a trackday. most experts would use 2.5-3 sets of tires for that much track time, which is pretty much the minimum you'd use at an MA event. if you don't want to race that many laps, you can race Twins or Stock1000, use less tires, and spend less $$.
 
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budman

budman

General Menace
Staff member
Thanks Robert. Good to see you on the broadcast here and there.

Hope you got your $$ worth of fun out of the weekend. :port
 
Honey Badger

Honey Badger

...iz a girl
I can't speak to what keeps many off the grids, but I would guess that tire budget plus the other little things may be what holds a lot of people back. Plus, plenty of folks don't want to spend that kind of money to not have a chance at a podium. Your pace has to be up there - I know I wouldn't want to be getting lapped, and want my pace to reflect that.

Not only is it the "stuff" and tires, one of the big expenses is travel. You, your pit crew, hotels, gas, food for everyone etc - that adds up really fast when you're on a tight budget.

That being said, if this year continues as it has been, I'll be at a few rounds next year (some east, some west) - but already have started to plan my budget and winter will be spent saving my pennies.
 
stangmx13

stangmx13

not Stan
I think the 2-day event kept some people off the grid too, at least for STK1000 and Twins. The east coast has all the events where either of those classes get 2 races. All 3 west coast rounds were short. I hope MA changes that for next year.
 
Martin

Martin

Well-known member
Homologation requirements would cost me north of $1k to make my bike slightly worse. Not knocking MA for their rules but the spend and hassle weren't worth it to me this year. If MA and Twins stay around, I'll likely give it a go next year.

Can we kill MR-12 in AFM? Would the pushback against doing so be the ease of cheating? I picture getting our fuel lined up with MA helping.
 
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stangmx13

stangmx13

not Stan
MA Twins is def staying around. the class is a hit, esp with fans.

the MA spec fuel works fine with a pump gas map. its not perfect, but close enough for a wildcard racer. a lot of people that race with high-$$ fuels already have a pump gas map. so I don't think the AFM needs to change to MA's spec fuel.

most clubs don't have spec fuels because its a lot of work to setup & police. it also screws over the people that race on pump gas - no one wants to be forced to spend $10/gal for little benefit.
 
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gixxerjeff

gixxerjeff

Dogs best friend
Thanks for the flashbacks, Dennis.
I vividly recall David Stanton taking 5th in the AMA superbike race many years back.
5th!!!!
He is still a god to me.
 
budman

budman

General Menace
Staff member
gixxerjeff said:
Thanks for the flashbacks, Dennis.
I vividly recall David Stanton taking 5th in the AMA superbike race many years back.
5th!!!!
He is still a god to me.
Click to expand...

Sure sure... Dave is awesome. :thumbup

My last AMA race was Sears in '89. 750 Supersport
Chandler and Russell checked out, but we had 3 AFMers in the top 10 for a while and probably about 8 in the top 20.

The top dudes crashed out ( I think Dave Deveaux and Mark McDaniels went out together on the exit from the carousel) and that left the rest of us battle for top AFM racer. I got Geep Terranova by a couple inches to claim the spot.

The famous helmet strap race for me.. :facepalm
 
J

jaybocc2

o lento
Because they wont let me race my 2011 ZX-10r, even though it is competitive enough for me.

So the cost is a new motorcycle is a big factor for me as well.
Licensing requirements are a small hindrance, now especially since i broke my leg at AFM round 4 and wont complete the season to earn enough license points.
The cost of the weekend is high but i feel it would be worth it. But as with others, i have no interest in getting lapped just to say i ran in a professional race.

My long term goal is to race MA in the next 2-3 years, but thats a big financial burden, since it involves buying a new moto to be eligible, and also, im kind of burned out on being made out of glass and breaking when i trip and fall.
 
J

jaybocc2

o lento
stangmx13 said:
the 2011 ZX-10R is allowed.

here's the AMA/FIM/MA homologation list of allowed motorcycles for SBK, STK1000, and SS.
http://www.americanmotorcyclist.com...d=3&moduleid=3004&articleid=11&documentid=557

heres the list for Twins
http://www.motoamericaregistration....otoAmerica Twins Homologation List 4.1.19.pdf

the JRC list is around somewhere.

there are even a few exceptions allowing older motorcycles, since im technically racing a 2008 R6 frame.
Click to expand...

Thank for the list.

According to the rulebook, bikes are homologated for 8 years and after that they age out. A 2011 ages out in 2020, supposedly.
 
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