Track skills vs Street skills

[MrCrash]

I've seen a few people post about how they believe track skills don't apply to street situations. If you're of this opinion, can you elaborate?

My stance: The control that a racer develops on the track is directly applicable to the street. Due to their experience at speed, racers will able to stop harder and turn faster than their street counterparts, giving them more options when situations arise.

Experienced racers also have a better feel for traction under different conditions, as well as the ability to recover from situations where traction is lost.

There's a reason racers are often slower than experienced street riders on public roads. They take into account the possibility of surface conditions around blind corners. They know that they're pretty much helpless if they split beyond a certain speed in traffic.

Opinions?

Is it a situational awareness deal? Street strategies? Do you think those really things that a racer's awareness and ability won't make up for?

 

[ALANRIDER7]

I've seen a few people post about how they believe track skills don't apply to street situations. If you're of this opinion, can you elaborate?

My stance: The control that a racer develops on the track is directly applicable to the street. Due to their experience at speed, racers will able to stop harder and turn faster than their street counterparts, giving them more options when situations arise.

Experienced racers also have a better feel for traction under different conditions, as well as the ability to recover from situations where traction is lost.

There's a reason racers are often slower than experienced street riders on public roads. They take into account the possibility of surface conditions around blind corners. They know that they're pretty much helpless if they split beyond a certain speed in traffic.

Opinions?

Is it a situational awareness deal? Street strategies? Do you think those really things that a racer's awareness and ability won't make up for?

+1.

 

[christofu]

Good post Mike!

My personal opinion is that 'track skills' are those skills that are directly related to how well you control (and are in control of) the motorcycle.

'Street skills' is the experience and judgement required to successfully nagivate the minefield of 'challenges' that street riders face every day.

Having 'track skills' gives you more options in almost all circumstances. Having 'street skills' means you know which option to choose.

 

[}Dragon{]

My stance: The control that a racer develops on the track is directly applicable to the street. Due to their experience at speed, racers will able to stop harder and turn faster than their street counterparts, giving them more options when situations arise.

Experienced racers etc etc etc

This is great when you are talking about racing, which you are above.

Not everyone who rides wants to become a racer. Not every racer rides on the street.

For Joe Burner the street rider, the experience at the track, can be good and bad.

Some folks after a trackday, find themselves going slower on the street. There is also a percentage that the opposite happens too.

It all depends on the rider.

There are a few folks I've seen after a trackday that decided to use the whole road, not just their side. Yes, there is a race line and a street line... the street line has the DY.

Track skills may translate in to better handling on the street especially under some conditions... like how far to lean the bike if you blow a turn... why not learn how not to blow the turn in the first place?

 

[}Dragon{]

Having 'track skills' gives you more options in almost all circumstances. Having 'street skills' means you know which option to choose.

Completely agree :thumbup

 

[ChuckBecker]

I don't have any track skills so I can't speak from personal knowledge. But I find it hard to believe that track experience wouldn't help with motorcycle control (physical skills and mental preparation) at the edge of the envelope. I've ridden with guys who have track time and in good conditions, they are smooth and fast and confident. I haven't ridden with any track guys in challenging conditions (snow and ice, mudslides and washouts, dirt and gravel roads, in the dark in the rain, etc) so I can't really say.

 

[ryanb]

street riding is to track riding:

financed, clean, slow, starbux

salvaged, crashed, slow, ibuprofen

 

[Teddy]

I agree with you 100% Mike..... I found that while my skills, feel, confidence and control all grew with leaps and bounds once I was introduced to the track (and was lucky enough to go to the track 5-10 times a year when I used to host events), that my street pace slowed consierably. I guess I just made the decision that I now knew where I could "feel" my personal limits out without taking unnecessary risks.

I kind of like it that way....people can underestimate my abilities while we are riding on the street, and then when I see them at the track they can feel my wrath!! hehehe:teeth, just kidding, I am not really that quick on the track either:blush


Now......I need to get my ZX10 on the track!!

 

[DataDan]

I half agree. I've never raced, but I have attended 20 or so track schools over the past 15 years. I love the track experience both for what it teaches me and for sheer fun, but I think the transfer of skills to the street is limited. Not non-existent, but limited. Here are some of my ideas about what it can and can't do for street riding.

What track experience can do for your street riding:

• Give you confidence to corner at high lean angle near the limit of grip. You’ll be less likely to panic if a turn tightens up unexpectedly and more lean angle is required. You know what the motorcycle is capable of, so you just crank it over further.
  
• Develop effective steering skill. The countersteering instinct is strongly developed on the track, so when you need to swerve to avoid an obstacle on the street, the reaction will be natural.
  
• Develop braking skill. When braking becomes necessary to avoid an obstacle, you must be able to get the bike to maximum deceleration quickly—but not so quickly that you risk front wheel lockup. The track helps to develop that fine edge.
  
• Train you to focus in an emergency. All track riders experience panic occasionally. But in the controlled environment you learn to maintain visual focus on where you want to go—not where the hazard is. And that instinct works equally well on the street.

What track experience cannot do for your street riding:

• Develop judgment to stay out of trouble. Much of what the track develops is bike-handling skill—maximum turning and stopping. But if a street rider finds himself taking emergency action to avoid crashing more often than very rarely, he doesn’t yet Get It. The track adds nothing to a rider’s ability to make decisions about where to be and how fast to be going to stay out of trouble on the street.
  
• Teach you to scan the big picture. On the track you develop reference points and consistently shift visual focus to planned, successive points as you move around the track. On the street, your visual field is always shifting to an unfamiliar scene. For example, as you round a bend at the track, you might be looking for a certain mark at the outside edge of the track that’s your exit aim point. But on the street, you may have no idea what’s around the bend. Not only are you searching for an exit aim point, you’re also looking for oncoming traffic, surface hazards, and points of vulnerability such as driveways or cross roads. In traffic, of course, the problem is much worse and even less related to track riding.
  
• Train you to play defense. On the track, you play offense. It’s you against the track, and you’re calling the shots. You choose a line that gets you around as fast as possible subject only to the static restriction of the circuit’s shape and, occasionally, other riders. But the vast majority of your time riding on the street is spent on defense. The direction the roadway goes is mostly predictable, but traffic and other conditions constantly threaten, and you must react to them—it’s their home turf, not yours.
  
• Keep you humble. After a few track days, new skills make some riders overconfident on the street. The idea that bike-handling abilities developed at the track make you a safe street rider is not just wrong but dangerous. Hazards materialize on the street faster than anyone can react to them. If you’re traveling at 40mph and a car pulls out of a driveway 50ft in front of you, braking and swerving can’t save you. The solution is to prevent the problem from occurring in the first place. Speed and position can help you to be seen, and keen observation will reveal the potential problem before it’s right in your face.

 

[MrCrash]

Re: Re: Track skills vs Street skills

This is great when you are talking about racing, which you are above.

Say a car suddenly pulls out of a driveway, partially hidden from view by a car that is parallel parked. My argument is that track / racing experience will help riders in that kind of situation, giving them more options. They can brake harder, turn faster, and a smaller chance of target fixating than a street rider.

What does that have to do with racing?

Some folks after a trackday, find themselves going slower on the street. There is also a percentage that the opposite happens too.

It all depends on the rider.

And when the opposite happens, there's a good chance the rider wil one of the ugliest crashes they'll ever have. This was the case for a few people I knew in the mid / late 90s, before tracktime was as available as it is now.

Most of those people no longer ride on the street. Some of them no longer ride.

Track skills may translate in to better handling on the street especially under some conditions... like how far to lean the bike if you blow a turn... why not learn how not to blow the turn in the first place?

Racers generally take lines on backroad / street rides that are safer than those of aggressive street riders. The racer's line often requires less lean angle, and results in less time spent at full lean.

If you believe the racer is at a disadvantage there, the racers you've followed probably don't have a whole lot of experience.

 

[Feanor]

I think track vs street shakes out like this:

I think it's a situation where it boils down to consistency, and hammering down a pattern of such , versus dealing with inconsistencies, and developing a mindset to react to surprises.

When you're on the track you curse if you exit a turn knowing you missed your apex by 12 inches... On the street, you breathe a sigh of relief because you missed hitting that 12in pothole right in the middle of the turn.

I would think that track practice allows you "slow down" the world around you while you ride, giving you more effectiveness in evaluating and reacting because at the greater speeds involved, one must learn to take in more data at a faster rate... or else crash.

Kind of like driving your car on the freeway in excess of say, 120mph for a few seconds then slowing down to 65mph and feeling like you could open the door, jump out and start running because it feels so slow.

Alot of the "anxiousness" that accompanies speed and surprise and leads to tragic hesitation probably comes from too much information too quickly... it doesn't really teach you to think faster than others per se, but only to process more information in the same amount of time, to be cogniscent of more in the blink of an eye, like that excercise where they flash a picture in front of your eyes and then you have to describe everything you saw.

Spending alot of time on the track is probably like getting a significant CPU upgrade because your mind becomes accustomed to this "way" of thinking. Lapping on a track at high speed takes alot of physical endurance that must be trained, the mind must be trained in the same way, and the core of that mental training transfer directly to the street. The car that swings suddenly into your lane not completely unlike the rider that just out-braked you and dove down suddenly inside your turn to try and pass you, causing you to instantly evaluate your new line to keep from running off the track.

But what do I know, my first trackday is still in the future, but heck, the line of thinking seems to be logical

Feanor

 

[paroxysm]

Good post Mike!

My personal opinion is that 'track skills' are those skills that are directly related to how well you control (and are in control of) the motorcycle.

'Street skills' is the experience and judgement required to successfully nagivate the minefield of 'challenges' that street riders face every day.

Having 'track skills' gives you more options in almost all circumstances. Having 'street skills' means you know which option to choose.

bravo...

 

[doubleottcrash]

Street VS Track?

Two totally seperate things. I believe that riders are out there that do posess both skills but only the basics of one apply to the other.
On the track your not going to come across wet railroad tracks at 65mph while leaning.On the street in traffic your rarely going to get the chance to drag knee at 155 unless your out on some road w/ not many cars around that might as well be a track.
You train your eyes and ears to listen and look for completely different shit.

 

[ontherearwheel]

The only thing racing taught me about street riding was how to go faster on the street.

But the thing is I rode a long time on the street before I raced. What I learned on the street I used when I got to the track. I already knew how to late brake, look through a turn, how to panic stop, how to change direction quickly and so on. I learned these skill by being honest about my skills, knowing what skill I'm weak in and then finding the places to practice them. So on the track, my skill level just went up, I didn't really learn anything new. Oh I did learn one thing......there are racers on the track that care as little about the people around them as the people on the street do. There are assholes everywhere.

Yes good street riding takes practice. And its the kinda of practice that can not be fully done on a race track.

Doing a full on panic stop with the rear locked up cannot be practiced fully on a race track, nor over and over again until you can do it as a reaction not something needed to be thinked about.

I have never had to turn my race bike as quick as I have on the street. I learned that skill from practicing on the street.

The race track did not teach me how to read a street or hill road. What the best lane position is when in traffic or to watch my mirrors. Riding on the street did, wanting to be a better street rider did.

Its up to each person to choose their path to become a better street rider. Implying that one can only learn how to brake hard, see through a corner or turn a bike fast is on a race track is very narrow minded.

 

[Kensaku]

Street VS Track?

Two totally seperate things. I believe that riders are out there that do posess both skills but only the basics of one apply to the other.
On the track your not going to come across wet railroad tracks at 65mph while leaning.On the street in traffic your rarely going to get the chance to drag knee at 155 unless your out on some road w/ not many cars around that might as well be a track.
You train your eyes and ears to listen and look for completely different shit.

+1

While I do agree that track skills improve my overall control of a motorcycle, the track isn't going to train me on things not found on the track, half of which has nothing to do with control...just bad luck.

There's one AFM racer who will remain anoynmous who thinks he's an "expert" street rider because of his AFM status. What does he do this past week? Goes and crashes on the street...

 

[Kensaku]

+1

While I do agree that track skills improve my overall control of a motorcycle, the track isn't going to train me on things not found on the track, half of which has nothing to do with control...just bad luck.

There's one AFM racer who will remain anoynmous who thinks he's an "expert" street rider because of his AFM status. What does he do this past week? Goes and crashes on the street...

I kind of retract this statement. What track riding has taught me is to give myself a large margin of error to avoid "bad luck" situations. Whenever I have a mishap, big or small, I try to evaluate my riding before pointing fingers at forces of nature.

 

[Feanor]

Street VS Track?

You train your eyes and ears to listen and look for completely different shit.

I think the tie is closer than that... It's not that you train your eyes and ears to see and listen for different "shit" I think you train your mind and reflexes to react to "shit" in general.

I would argue that the single biggest factor aside from inappropriate speed, leading to crashes on motorcycles is not doing "something" the instant things start to go south.

In a word... hesitation, or its direct counterpart, "overreaction" I think that the track provides a consistent "workout" area where reaction time is lessened, and overreaction is turned into subtlety at the controls because the track is an environment where you can "isolate" themental practice, like some weird nautilus machine for your mind.

You hit a corner over and over and over again, so that you understand what subtle speed changes, steering inputs lean angles etc etc, do to your path of travel and where you end up on the track... On the street, so much "stuff" is going on that it becomes a morass of data so that when you exit the turn you think "Ok, I made it, what the hell just happened?"

Feanor

 

[doubleottcrash]

Good shit,

I know one person (no Name) that is always asking me when I will hit the track with? I tell him probably never. His response has been somewhere along the lines of -what, don't think you could handle it?
Yah thats it.
And when asked when will i see him on the street he replys.
I will meet you at skaggs. When I ask? Sometime soon he say's I'll load up my bike and see you there.

Dumbass.

 

[Feanor]

Good shit,

I know one person (no Name) that is always asking me when I will hit the track with? I tell him probably never. His response has been somewhere along the lines of -what, don't think you could handle it?
Yah thats it.
And when asked when will i see him on the street he replys.
I will meet you at skaggs. When I ask? Sometime soon he say's I'll load up my bike and see you there.

Dumbass.

As much skill is shared, there is also the proprietary information that is most useful to one discipline or the other... It's probably up to the individual in question how they choose to apply it to either and what parts of it they choose to ignore

I still remember that man in the issue of BIKE magazine who rides fast on the street and has been doing so for 52 years, and has never crashed, not even once.

I'll bet HE has quite a bit proprietary information in his head about street riding (and this is in England, where riding a motorcycle in that weather means you're hardcore to begin with )

If you enleashed that gentleman on the track, perhaps he would be clueless as to how to proceed, but then again, he doesn't need to know anything about it either...

My goal is to gather every bit of information I can to stay upright... Wether that comes from the street or track I don't really care, I'll listen eagerly!

Feanor

 

[doubleottcrash]

I agree. To each's own.
I have crashed many times and have learned some alot of what not to do's from ebery one. Even though they are not always you falt. Most can still be avoided.

OUT