Lester Green
DROOPY FOR MOD
clutches, we don't need no stinkin clutches..
Today I was *that guy*
- Thread starter Trogdor
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Yody
Well-known member
ALANRIDER7 said:
Oh, and just for clarification, Alans of course correct, I was forgetting that the oil filter only sees oil/oil pressure unlike something like a pan gasket or such which sees crankcase loads. So of course the only thing that will affect the oil filter and the O ring sealing would be heat and the Oil pressure. Right thoughts, wrong application. :cool
scalvert
Well-known member
Snoggin outted me before I could chime in, but I too have done this. The whole story is kinda interesting.
It was my 3rd or 4th trackday back in December 04 and my first time at Sears. I had freshly changed the oil and filter and had run the bike to test it but hadn't gotten the rpms high. Headed out for my first session it would seem my bike was smoking a bit when I pulled up to grid control which was manned by an employee of the track. He claimed in the after action report that he'd signalled to me not to go out, but I don't recall anything other than a vague hand motion which I interpreted as "you next, go".
As it happens I'd also somehow managed to not fasten the chin strap on my helmet. I guess I was trying to get all my rookie mistakes out at once. Anyway, as soon as I started through the hot pits to the track entrance I felt it blowing around, so I pulled over in the hit pits to fasten it.
The grid control worker thought that I was pulling over due to my smoking/leaking bike, so he kinda relaxed. Well, when I pulled out to the entrance and let the bike rev the second filter gasket completely blew out and my bike became a 2.8L capacity oil super soaker. My first awareness of a problem was when the rear wheel spun up. I did not crash despite having a fully oiled rear tire and pulled off to rider's left just past the bridge in T1. I'd oiled the whole entrance ramp and the left side of the track to just past the bridge.
This is where things went from bad to worse. I pulled off, put the bike on the side stand, and started screaming at the T2 worker. I ran up to where I knew he could see me and started giving the OIL hand signal, while screaming that I'd oiled the track. I was jumping up and down and making the slash across the throat "red flag" signal. What response did he give? Nothing. That is until a rider came through (not sure if it was from the entrance or a hot lap) and crashed in the oil. Thankfully he was unhurt and his bike had already been down on that side. STILL there was no response. What caused the session to be red flagged was when _I_ ran out onto the track on the oil line and started giving the "widen your line" signal to riders.
Now clearly I was a dumbass in double gasketing my filter and I take full responsibility for oiling the track. But I was also astonished at the track provided workers' ineffectual responses. As a multi-year AFM Diehard these are the errors I see:
1) The grid controller, if he saw I was smoking should have responded violently. A rider about to get on the track is thinking about NOTHING other than GOING. If you see a problem with a rider right before releasing them you must do something DRAMATIC to make sure they understand. A minimum is stepping directly in front of their path and putting both hands out. Hitting the rider's kill switch isn't a bad idea either. Being visibly upset would help too. Riders respond to highly agitated workers more quickly than to calm ones. Honestly as an AFM worker IF I saw a bike heading out that was smoking heavily in the hot pits and the rider started riding past me I'd knock him off the bike with a well placed shoulder. A small vague hand gesture is, um, not enough.
2) I'd love to talk with the T2 worker. The track was open for a full two minutes before the crash. I'd been screaming "OIL ON THE FUCKING TRACK" and using the universal OIL sign for the entire two minutes. If an AFM worker failed to respond in that way they wouldn't just be uninvited from working ever again, I'm pretty sure Barb would have them escorted from the track property with a note to the security gaurd that he should be looking for a chance to get a beating in.
It was my 3rd or 4th trackday back in December 04 and my first time at Sears. I had freshly changed the oil and filter and had run the bike to test it but hadn't gotten the rpms high. Headed out for my first session it would seem my bike was smoking a bit when I pulled up to grid control which was manned by an employee of the track. He claimed in the after action report that he'd signalled to me not to go out, but I don't recall anything other than a vague hand motion which I interpreted as "you next, go".
As it happens I'd also somehow managed to not fasten the chin strap on my helmet. I guess I was trying to get all my rookie mistakes out at once. Anyway, as soon as I started through the hot pits to the track entrance I felt it blowing around, so I pulled over in the hit pits to fasten it.
The grid control worker thought that I was pulling over due to my smoking/leaking bike, so he kinda relaxed. Well, when I pulled out to the entrance and let the bike rev the second filter gasket completely blew out and my bike became a 2.8L capacity oil super soaker. My first awareness of a problem was when the rear wheel spun up. I did not crash despite having a fully oiled rear tire and pulled off to rider's left just past the bridge in T1. I'd oiled the whole entrance ramp and the left side of the track to just past the bridge.
This is where things went from bad to worse. I pulled off, put the bike on the side stand, and started screaming at the T2 worker. I ran up to where I knew he could see me and started giving the OIL hand signal, while screaming that I'd oiled the track. I was jumping up and down and making the slash across the throat "red flag" signal. What response did he give? Nothing. That is until a rider came through (not sure if it was from the entrance or a hot lap) and crashed in the oil. Thankfully he was unhurt and his bike had already been down on that side. STILL there was no response. What caused the session to be red flagged was when _I_ ran out onto the track on the oil line and started giving the "widen your line" signal to riders.
Now clearly I was a dumbass in double gasketing my filter and I take full responsibility for oiling the track. But I was also astonished at the track provided workers' ineffectual responses. As a multi-year AFM Diehard these are the errors I see:
1) The grid controller, if he saw I was smoking should have responded violently. A rider about to get on the track is thinking about NOTHING other than GOING. If you see a problem with a rider right before releasing them you must do something DRAMATIC to make sure they understand. A minimum is stepping directly in front of their path and putting both hands out. Hitting the rider's kill switch isn't a bad idea either. Being visibly upset would help too. Riders respond to highly agitated workers more quickly than to calm ones. Honestly as an AFM worker IF I saw a bike heading out that was smoking heavily in the hot pits and the rider started riding past me I'd knock him off the bike with a well placed shoulder. A small vague hand gesture is, um, not enough.
2) I'd love to talk with the T2 worker. The track was open for a full two minutes before the crash. I'd been screaming "OIL ON THE FUCKING TRACK" and using the universal OIL sign for the entire two minutes. If an AFM worker failed to respond in that way they wouldn't just be uninvited from working ever again, I'm pretty sure Barb would have them escorted from the track property with a note to the security gaurd that he should be looking for a chance to get a beating in.
ALANRIDER7
MeowMeowMeow
This brings up an interesting point. Some filter O-rings are square and some are round. In the picture I posted, the one stuck to the motor has a flat surface- this would make it easier for a round O-ring to squash up against it without leaking at first. But put enough pressurized oil behind it and it will fail eventually.
afm199
Well-known member
totally off thread, the non afm track workers are not always, to say the least, moto oriented. I have had the opportunity to see them do so weird stuff, like blue flagging bikes. LOL You kinda look at it and go: I know what that means, most of these riders don't and it is NOT one of the flags covered in the safety meeting. :laughing
squid vicious
nomnomnomnom
if you spent more time checking the bike, and less time on the karoke machine.....
scalvert said:
Strange. I've done 100+ trackdays with about a dozen different organizations and ridden at every track in California that allows motorcycles. I've worked as an on-track marshal and riding instructor. I've been to numerous motorcycle racing events conducted by at least a half-dozen different sanctioning bodies.
And I have no idea what the "universal OIL sign" is. Perhaps your turn worker, who probably spends most of his time working car events, didn't know it either?
What I do know is that if I dumped a gallon of oil on the track, I'd be standing in the middle of the puddle (or as close as was prudent) waving my arms over my head and "pushing" other riders toward a safe line. Dunno if that's the universal sign, but it seems pretty effective at preventing crashes!
ALANRIDER7
MeowMeowMeow
Yeah, what exactly is the "universal" oil on the track signal?
Hooli
Big Ugly
ALANRIDER7 said:
Bwaaaa, that's exactly what happened when I changed the oil for the very first time on the K6. Everything looked hunky-dory until I gave the engine a quick blip after idling it up to temp for a couple of minutes. Hot fresh 10wt-40 projectile-vomited all over the garage floor...I was like :wtf x 10
After I hastily shut it off and cleaned up the mess, I did some deep thinking and realized that the old O-ring from the original filter had remained on the engine block. I was effectively trying to use two gaskets. Stupid me. :laughing
Eisernkreuz
unteroffizier
yody said:
Those of us who know Dave personally know that he's a very capable rider and owner. It's not like the guy strips bolts and scratches fairings every time he touches something. In this instance, a mistake happened that wasn't easy to spot without actually being on the track, or just waiting 11 days for the oil to accumulate enough in the fairing to seep out and drip onto the floor. :rolleyes Give the guy a break, he was honest and took responsibility for a mistake that could happen to anyone, as Alan described.
With your attitude, I suggest you start saving up to construct and pave your own track, so that someone else's involvement doesn't hinder your fun, whether it be dropping some oil on the track or passing you kinda close on the outside
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