Skill is overrated

[YZF450LE]

Ah Dear Data Dan i really don't think most people would have much respect for a rider that wheelies into a parked car, while being drunk after having his license suspended for a prior DUI, but i could be wrong.

:rofl

I am not going to read any further then that. The OP gives respect to those risking there lives and putting others at risk. That is not skill, that just stupid and some people say ya cannot fix stupid, well I argue nature has a way to correct stupid :wow

Nothing more I can add but this, as I have grown older, and look back at the Stupid I did. I am one lucky SOB, but now at 51 I tell people, I think with the mass between my ears, then the twins between my legs arty

 

[slydrite]

One of those riders is Shakey Byrne. :laughing

well, Shane Byrne doesn't ride Skaggs at 10/10th's so what 2 BSB championships, WSBK wildcard wins and MotoGP rides compared to that?!?!?! :x

 

[canyonrat]

Let me discribe why I think it was bad judgement.

I "size up" the traffic situtaion they were riding in like this. These cars and m/c's are likely tourists and don't know the road and thus don't have a "driving routine" for the road, so they could make and "unexpected manuver". This manuver could stem from them being frustrated be stuck in traffic, getting angery because all of these bikes are passing them by as they sit, or simply drifting into the path of a lane splitting bike as they reach over for some food as they boringly inch along.

I've seen a fellow motorcyclist pull right infront of one of two fast approaching motorcyclists (speed differential of 20-30mph) because they moved over for one and did not see the other. The mis was inches from an impact!

 

[Z3n]

Let me discribe why I think it was bad judgement.

I "size up" the traffic situtaion they were riding in like this. These cars and m/c's are likely tourists and don't know the road and thus don't have a "driving routine" for the road, so they could make and "unexpected manuver". This manuver could stem from them being frustrated be stuck in traffic, getting angery because all of these bikes are passing them by as they sit, or simply drifting into the path of a lane splitting bike as they reach over for some food as they boringly inch along.

I've seen a fellow motorcyclist pull right infront of one of two fast approaching motorcyclists (speed differential of 20-30mph) because they moved over for one and did not see the other. The mis was inches from an impact!

I don't think that anyone disagrees with the amount of shit judgement displayed there, just that the riders don't know what they're doing. They're obviously dumbasses. But skilled ones, exactly as DataDan points out...skill and judgement don't go hand in hand.

 

[mosquito]

... I do think some riders overemphasize the ability to handle the bike well as a factor in preventing crashes. ...

*This* is the critical thing I think many newbie riders don't realise when they post up, "I want to trade up, which RR should I get?" When people say, "That sounds dangerous for you" they often respond with "No chicken strips!" or "I'm draggin' hard parts here!"

Sure many people are talented and can develop skills quickly but I think the judgement is much more important in staying alive. Mistakes do happen and there's a world of difference between having to say, "Wow, I was lucky there, glad I pulled that off" and "I OK, but I still really f'd that up, what were my mistakes?"

For me the learning is the best part about riding and owning the whole process is essential.

 

[faz]

:thumbup DataDan. Completely agree.

(This thread reminded me of and I had to do a search and find this other thread from back in 2004 ... which had some discussions on how skill and judgment are two different things... my take on how lucky fast street riders are on the street, regardless of how VERY skilled they might be... etc. )

 

[notme]

opcorn

 

[corrupt]

You'll find recent info on Bay Area crashes in the thread Motostats 2007 and in the two Bay Area posts in Motostats 2006 (#47 and #56).

My impressions for 2008 are from news accounts and BARF posts. In the first month of spring this year, four riders were dying per week. I posted some of the details here. The rest of the year hasn't been as bad, but it still seems to have been exceptionally deadly.

Compilation of crash details for 2007 (similar to the second of the 2006 posts) is work in progress. But what I've seen so far supports the conclusion about riders creating their own problems.

Thank you very much! I don't know how I missed these.

 

[littlebeast]

You'll find recent info on Bay Area crashes in the thread Motostats 2007 and in the two Bay Area posts in Motostats 2006 (#47 and #56).

My impressions for 2008 are from news accounts and BARF posts. In the first month of spring this year, four riders were dying per week. I posted some of the details here. The rest of the year hasn't been as bad, but it still seems to have been exceptionally deadly.

Compilation of crash details for 2007 (similar to the second of the 2006 posts) is work in progress. But what I've seen so far supports the conclusion about riders creating their own problems.

so for the aggressive interventionists - the first of month of spring would seem to be the month to spring into action. put a red peg on the calendar.

 

[plumber]

so for the aggressive interventionists - the first of month of spring would seem to be the month to spring into action. put a red peg on the calendar.

It's always prudent to recognize squid season. One can't stop the carnage but one can recognize the threat and avoid the areas of infestation. People will die as they have for generations. My hope would be to make one rider think twice before falling to peer pressure and doing something stupid. My rants and ramblings are for that rider.

 

[ohio]

skid marx please read my previous post. I believe skill to be a good thing. the O.P. does not....

You may want to re-read the OP.

 

[rapidrobbie]

OK,I'll bite.Skill,and sometimes a little luck are what can save you when you are using bad judgement.Sometimes it works out,sometimes not.Taking risks are what make riding FUN for me,a selfish attitude yes,but I really don't careRide fast and take chances kids!...Robbie

 

[louemc]

OK,I'll bite.Skill,and sometimes a little luck are what can save you when you are using bad judgement.Sometimes it works out,sometimes not.Taking risks are what make riding FUN for me,a selfish attitude yes,but I really don't careRide fast and take chances kids!...Robbie

Could be a communications thing, but I don't relate to what your saying.

In my world. as skills are built, judgement of using them is getting built on at the same time.

When I'm on the public road, I'm drawing on everything I have.
That gives me abilities to handle what comes up, and evaluate what has to be done. Ability to tell my bike what I want it to do.

When the situation allows, I'm doing the exciting thing, it's serious rush.

Actually, I don't take (don't like to think I take) chances. Some would say I do, but.... everything is my assessment.

 

[Teddy]

if ignorance is bliss.......some of 'yall must be pretty happy.....

 

[rapidrobbie]

if ignorance is bliss.......some of 'yall must be pretty happy.....

DEE DE DEE:rofl

 

[DataDan]

Skill, and sometimes a little luck are what can save you when you are using bad judgment. Sometimes it works out, sometimes not. Taking risks are what make riding FUN for me...

Thanks for your candor. Even though I'm a natural-born pussy, I appreciate that other riders live for the danger. And understanding that some people enjoy taking significant risks advances the discussion about why crashes happen.

At the same time, I hope that an understanding of that attitude would silence the boo-hooing and fatalistic laments that "it can happen to anyone" when the inevitable happens to a willing risk-taker.

 

[rapidrobbie]

Thanks for you candor. Even though I'm a natural-born pussy, I appreciate that other riders live for the danger. And understanding that some people enjoy taking significant risks advances the discussion about why crashes happen.

At the same time, I also hope that an understanding of that attitude would silence the boo-hooing and fatalistic laments that "it can happen to anyone" when the inevitable happens to a willing risk-taker.

I fully understand the risks,and what can happen if it goes horribly wrong,and I accept that,for me that's part of the deal of taking risks.I have been riding a long time,and I am still learning things all the time and putting what I have learned into use,raising my skill level....Robbie

 

[GAJ]

Yeah, but potentially egging on much newer riders who may not have 1/2 the skills you have?

Feel good about that?

Save it for the track.

Advice to newer riders; trying to keep up with some bad ass veteran who's talking racing moves on the street is not a recipe for street moto longevity.

Met a guy the other day who bought his first bike in 1951...has not had a crash, ever.

Rides damned well, too.

Respect THAT guy.

 

[rapidrobbie]

Yeah, but potentially egging on much newer riders who may not have 1/2 the skills you have?

Feel good about that?

Save it for the track.

Advice to newer riders; trying to keep up with some bad ass veteran who's talking racing moves on the street is not a recipe for street moto longevity.

Met a guy the other day who bought his first bike in 1951...has not had a crash, ever.

Rides damned well, too.

Respect THAT guy.

You need to know YOUR limitations,when to let that other rider go.I used to do the SMR in Marin every sunday for years,and I learned a lot during that time,but probably the most important one was ride your own ride.I saw many new guys show up out there,not listen to the veterans,and become lawn darts,stuck into the hillside or fly off into Bolinas lagoon.You have to know when to keep your ego in check,sometimes even the most grizzeled veterans have trouble doing this.I remember a rider out there,who is a very good rider,try to make a pass on 5 of us at once,I knew he would never make the pass.He didn't,lost the front on the brakes and fell,I slowed down,asked him"You OK?"he said yes,and I was on my way,cause that's all I would've gotten from him if I had been on the ground.That was the only time I ever saw that guy fall,but after even he admitted his ego wrote a check his skills could'nt cash,poor judgement...Robbie

 

[GAJ]

A reasoned response Robbie.

Thumbs up to that.

The "red mist," especially when group riding on the street, can be a very bad thing!

One of the reasons I never have done the SMR.

Full disclosure; on a solo ride once, only about 5 years ago, I let the "red mist" get to me and I had a conversation with a barbed wire fence on a well known back road.

It was enlightening and I listened.

That barbed wire fence had a lot of good things to say.