Round 1 Buttonwillow Sat Race #2

[ILOAD2]

Zoran. I always listen and respect everything you have to say. In the current situation we gotta look at the whole chessboard. Right now if you bring a Middle weight to AFM you have to look at numbers. If you know your grid is 4 to 6 guys-you aint getting no solo race. The small bikes is where 650s are going to get placed. You got 3 to 4 guys doing the delta you are describing. In Club level there has to be some accountability of on track actions. Yes, its a speed contest- we dont get blue passing flags. You come up on a slow rider you make it kool and as safe as possible. If you get the short end of the stick and get held up and your competitor gets the best of it, you have to roll with it.Right now there is not to many more combinations to get 650 away from little bike- and I would argue that its not even little bike- its the novice wave that are a pain for all of us right now

 

[sckego]

What average pace has to do with it? When you have 30+ mph difference in speed between bikes they don't belong together.

I thought this thread was about having a 5-wave race, which results in the first wave (F40 LW) coming around and catching up to the last wave (CLT) soon after they've gotten the green flag, so you have fast guys trying to get through a thick pack that hasn't had time to spread out. A possible solution to that would be to combine waves, so everyone starts sooner and has more time to spread out before getting lapped.

It sounds like your complaint is any grouping of 650 twins and 250/300s, which is an issue with the AFM definition of "lightweight," not an issue with the waves in this particular race. Anyone entering F40 (or afemme, or clubman) on a 250/300 is in the LW class, grouped with the 650 twins. What's your proposal to eliminate the 30mph speed difference? Put 650 twins with the 600s?

 

[TWF]

It sounds like your complaint is any grouping of 650 twins and 250/300s, which is an issue with the AFM definition of "lightweight," not an issue with the waves in this particular race. Anyone entering F40 (or afemme, or clubman) on a 250/300 is in the LW class, grouped with the 650 twins. What's your proposal to eliminate the 30mph speed difference? Put 650 twins with the 600s?

Whatever it takes to not have any bigger bikes mixed with 250/300s.
I would not like it on 650 and would not like it on 250/300.
Iload says it is only 4-6 guys so they need to be put with somebody. Well if it is only 4-6 guys than it should be no problem if they are 3rd way to middleweight and heavyweight F40 like they are asking. Sounds like better option to me.

 

[TWF]

Zoran. I always listen and respect everything you have to say. In the current situation we gotta look at the whole chessboard. Right now if you bring a Middle weight to AFM you have to look at numbers. If you know your grid is 4 to 6 guys-you aint getting no solo race. The small bikes is where 650s are going to get placed. You got 3 to 4 guys doing the delta you are describing. In Club level there has to be some accountability of on track actions. Yes, its a speed contest- we dont get blue passing flags. You come up on a slow rider you make it kool and as safe as possible. If you get the short end of the stick and get held up and your competitor gets the best of it, you have to roll with it.Right now there is not to many more combinations to get 650 away from little bike- and I would argue that its not even little bike- its the novice wave that are a pain for all of us right now

Years back there was same issue, 650's and 250/300s racing together. Nobody cared about complains until it started causing crashes and collisions. They got separated. Now they are back together again, I guess nothing learned.
Change chessboard instead playing chess with riders.

 

[sckego]

Whatever it takes to not have any bigger bikes mixed with 250/300s.
I would not like it on 650 and would not like it on 250/300.
Iload says it is only 4-6 guys so they need to be put with somebody. Well if it is only 4-6 guys than it should be no problem if they are 3rd way to middleweight and heavyweight F40 like they are asking. Sounds like better option to me.

So is that re-class 650 twins as middleweight instead of lightweight? Seems like the 650 guys would not like that, as they would have no chance against the 600s. Or create another (welterweight?) class just for 650s, to be run in the same race as HW/MW? And that change would affect F40/50, AF, Clubman...?

 

[sckego]

Years back there was same issue, 650's and 250/300s racing together. Nobody cared about complains until it started causing crashes and collisions. They got separated. Now they are back together again, I guess nothing learned.
Change chessboard instead playing chess with riders.

When were they separated? Where did 650s go, if not in LW, with the 250s and 300s?

 

[TWF]

Your questions are answered in posts you quoting.

 

[ILOAD2]

Zoran. There are only 2 choices for F40Lyt..

A move to Race 1
Or
A move to race 3
on any given Saturday

If you have riders you support,help,advise in 40lyt, ask them what they think is best of the choices in the current structure and take it to the President

 

[TWF]

If you have riders you support,help,advise in 40lyt, ask them what they think is best of the choices in the current structure and take it to the President

They posted here, you just have to read it

 

[Holeshot]

I have no fucking idea what Souza is saying.

Aaron and I talked about it and it was a good conversation. More than willing to make changes for the better of racing. Please let me know where it fits in the schedule, guys. Let's do this.

Also, Zoran, our problem is we have too many classes. If I could nuke all the small bike classes from orbit and start over, I'd do that in a millisecond. I think if you're racing a 300, you end up in a 400 class and are out classed....much like riding an older 600 in 600 class.

 

[TWF]

Also, Zoran, our problem is we have too many classes.

Then you got things to fix. Unless more classes is more important than safety.
You can't claim to care so much about safety and then stick bikes that don't belong together in same race because you don't want to fix problem.

 

[Martin]

I have no fucking idea what Souza is saying.

Aaron and I talked about it and it was a good conversation. More than willing to make changes for the better of racing. Please let me know where it fits in the schedule, guys. Let's do this.

Also, Zoran, our problem is we have too many classes. If I could nuke all the small bike classes from orbit and start over, I'd do that in a millisecond. I think if you're racing a 300, you end up in a 400 class and are out classed....much like riding an older 600 in 600 class.

Hi Berto,

Have you considered nuking classes but giving people enough heads up to plan their move to a remaining class? For your 300/400 example above, I'd suggest announcing now that you're killing the 300 class next year. Then people can make peace with their bike becoming obsolete and start work obtaining a replacement.

I know you're trying to optimize for entry count, but I believe doing so by maximizing class count does more harm than good. There are so many participation trophies to be had in the AFM, it has lost some prestige. Imagine the club having consolidated classes and bigger grids. There'd be more meaning to a podium.

I bet meaningful podiums in a prestigious club will attract more entries than participation trophies in a pandering club. An opinion, of course.

 

[Tumbleweed]

I have no fucking idea what Souza is saying.

Aaron and I talked about it and it was a good conversation. More than willing to make changes for the better of racing. Please let me know where it fits in the schedule, guys. Let's do this.

Also, Zoran, our problem is we have too many classes. If I could nuke all the small bike classes from orbit and start over, I'd do that in a millisecond. I think if you're racing a 300, you end up in a 400 class and are out classed....much like riding an older 600 in 600 class.

Hi Berto,

Have you considered nuking classes but giving people enough heads up to plan their move to a remaining class? For your 300/400 example above, I'd suggest announcing now that you're killing the 300 class next year. Then people can make peace with their bike becoming obsolete and start work obtaining a replacement.

I will be the first to admit I have been around AFM for a millisecond compared to some of the OG's. So try not to tar/feather me when I ask if AFM has ever tried gridding experts with experts, novices with novices? At this point, I am just curious because I (now) don't see it as a solution to the 5-wave situation since I'm thinking peeps that fought to get "their own" race will not want to be "wave-buddies."

It would seem (barring sending out "sorry, your-bike-is-now-obsolete" notices or "nuking" all the baby-bike classes) that the remaining option is shaving another practice on Saturday. I know this has come up in other posts and people have peed their pants over loosing practice time, but what other option is there?


Wait---I have it!! Put it to a vote!!! :rofl

 

[RACER774]

I have no fucking idea what Souza is saying.

Aaron and I talked about it and it was a good conversation. More than willing to make changes for the better of racing. Please let me know where it fits in the schedule, guys. Let's do this.

Also, Zoran, our problem is we have too many classes. If I could nuke all the small bike classes from orbit and start over, I'd do that in a millisecond. I think if you're racing a 300, you end up in a 400 class and are out classed....much like riding an older 600 in 600 class.

Lets see....I will say it again...If the AFM put the 4 waves behind the F1 race grid and had the F1 racers come up on those 4 waves after 2 laps in and had to navigate through those waves I bet it would be solved the very next race. Meaning you would find a better place for the F40LWT if lets say the president raced a F40LWT bike. comprende?

 

[RACER774]

Just received email from AFM to register for Round 3. Looks like Saturday Race 2 that includes F40LWT has 5 waves still.
"Lets Do this" lol

 

[RACER774]

The same day after round 2 race I went to Barbara (race director) to air my displeasure with 5 waves and she sent me to Jordan Edgington (rider rep) He admitted to me its a problem that needs fixing. Than went to Dave Moss (BOD) same day same thing. He said he would talk to Ali about putting it on agenda monday morning. Than talked to Lisa Kinberger (BOD) same thing. Yet here we are. AFM are you REALLY listening??????

 

[Tumbleweed]

The same day after round 2 race I went to Barbara (race director) to air my displeasure with 5 waves and she sent me to Jordan Edgington (rider rep) He admitted to me its a problem that needs fixing. Than went to Dave Moss (BOD) same day same thing. He said he would talk to Ali about putting it on agenda monday morning. Than talked to Lisa Kinberger (BOD) same thing. Yet here we are. AFM are you REALLY listening??????

Hey Mike, how would you propose to fix? It is awesome that you made yourself heard on this. I know all the peeps you talked to, plus the Prez has been involved in this thread...so far, feasible solutions seem to be escaping those of us that are concerned. Christ, I haven’t even done a 5-wave round yet & I am concerned....so....????

I have sent emails to the BoD that have gone unanswered in the past for sure, however, this issue I actually DO feel is being heard. But WTF is the solution??

 

[TWF]

Hi Berto,

Have you considered nuking classes but giving people enough heads up to plan their move to a remaining class? For your 300/400 example above, I'd suggest announcing now that you're killing the 300 class next year.

No need to nuke 300's, think those are popular bikes and deserve their own class, without bigger bikes racing with them at same time.
Talking about nuking how about classes for bikes that don't exist or race any more, like 750. It is 600 class now which makes 5 classes for them to race on sunday (without counting F40 and FP). Wonder how many do all 5, I bet nobody.
Talking about picking, choosing and consolidating, start right there.

 

[RACER774]

My first thought was to put us with F40 HVWT/F40 MDWT. Make us 3rd wave as a test/tryout. After race get feedback from us and them and go from there. No one came to us about feedback for our race last round cause they would of got an earful which they did anyway. Being that it would only be about 6-8 bikes for the fast guys to catch as well as we would be spread out I don't see it being a big deal but I will let them (hvwt/mdwt) say how it turned out.

 

[stangmx13]

who's running this club? the racers? I don't expect a customer (racers are customers) to have to come up w/ a solution for a safety issue.

perhaps the best way to fix this issue is electing someone that will take care of it.