Round 1 Buttonwillow Sat Race #2

[jaybocc2]

Thanks for the work/ suggestion. Here's the large rub; to make the event's work financially, we'd have to double entry fees if we're losing near 10 classes.

Moar races!! And don't take my GP class LOL.

A 13-14 lap race maybe should cost 1.5-2x a 6lap sprint race, no?

Making the formula races more of a premier event with 2x laps would be interesting...

Having quals would be cool. Money has to be made somewhere.

How can we keep the same # of entrants and the per rider entrance of $350-600 or so? (my entrance for BW weekend is a little over $400 for 3 races plus practice and donations)

How much would per rider costs have to increase to cover for lost riders??

How do AFM grids compare to other club weekends with less classes and fees?

 

[Gavin Botha]

The solution is bigger grids. With more entries the AFM can stop having to cater to every bike size just to get more grids, each with a hand full of bikes. I was hoping that the influx of small bike classes would serve as a pipeline for transitioning to bigger bike classes, but I don't know if that is happening. While I fully support all classes, I agree that all of the different sizes of smaller bikes pose a problem, and frankly with the speed differences between the small bikes and even 600's, they dont belong on the track at the same time. I see this becoming a problem at track days as well. Seen a lot of very close calls just by misjudging speed difference. IMHO anything less than 450 should not be allowed in A group due to unsafe speed delta.

I was pleased to see larger grids at BW. Lets keep that going and give Berto some ammunition to cut classes

 

[Tumbleweed]

The solution is bigger grids. With more entries the AFM can stop having to cater to every bike size just to get more grids, each with a hand full of bikes. I was hoping that the influx of small bike classes would serve as a pipeline for transitioning to bigger bike classes, but I don't know if that is happening. While I fully support all classes, I agree that all of the different sizes of smaller bikes pose a problem, and frankly with the speed differences between the small bikes and even 600's, they dont belong on the track at the same time. I see this becoming a problem at track days as well. Seen a lot of very close calls just by misjudging speed difference. IMHO anything less than 450 should not be allowed in A group due to unsafe speed delta.

I was pleased to see larger grids at BW. Lets keep that going and give Berto some ammunition to cut classes

A lot of basic truth here. The AFM needs $$ to just “be” as any business does. I agree that the solution is bigger grids. Therein lies the dollah to allow the AFM to function, allowing us maniacs to unquestionably spend our hard earned paychecks to go in circles. So. How to make everybody happy?? Ain’t gonna happen. Safety for all must be priority.

Manufacturers gonna keep coming up with shit every year. We gonna be having a whole discussion about some other cc-ed bike next year. I mean, the Kawi 636 being crippled into the 450-class already has my attention.

The AFM cannot create a bucket for every raindrop. The AFM needs to coach its raindrops to get.the.f.along. If you no happy with where you bike gets slotted....get a different bike for hells sakes . Otherwise we gonna end up with classes from grom to hayabusa rolleyes)....and we gonna need Monday races just to finish.

Additionally, regarding trackdays, as a 450 in the A-group.... I have seen more jackass-bullshit in A-group since crippling my R6 to a 450.....I’ve actually gone and chatted with other A-group riders who have been asshats....BUT that’s my choice. It would be EASY to bump down to a lower group. I ain’t never done easy, and I’m not gonna start. I will educate others and I will.get.the.f.faster. Imma stay in A-group where I trust peeps to “sorta” know WTF they are doing. Somma ya’ll may be asshats, but it ain’t no different than any of the other asshats a chick deals with in general

 

[scratchpad]

A lot of basic truth here.

Manufacturers gonna keep coming up with shit every year. We gonna be having a whole discussion about some other cc-ed bike next year. I mean, the Kawi 636 being crippled into the 450-class already has my attention.

The AFM cannot create a bucket for every raindrop. The AFM needs to coach its raindrops to get.the.f.along. If you no happy with where you bike gets slotted....get a different bike for hells sakes . Otherwise we gonna end up with classes from grom to hayabusa rolleyes)....and we gonna need Monday races just to finish.

Its funny you say all that....AND race in the quirkles class. AFM created a bucket for that raindrop. :teeth

 

[Tumbleweed]

Its funny you say all that....AND race in the quirkles class. AFM created a bucket for that raindrop. :teeth

HA!! Fair point! Touché :rofl. I LOVE my bucket too. I guess by the time I switched over, the 450 class had been established for years, so that didn’t occur to me. Totally excellent point. :thumbup

So do we just keep making a class for everything??

For this particular race, I think the idea of three waves, with experts gridded together seems a potential solution...and maybe if it works, that would allow the continuing future creation of new classes? “Fine, you get a XXXcc class, but ya’ll gonna grid and start in the same wave as _______”.

 

[jrshooter]

you can tell me im stupid, it wont hurt my feelings. i shoot a lot of pistol matches, they have a lot of classes also, but things like jr,women, over 40 over 50, mil and law enforcement, are categories, they still run in a main class. ie 600 super sport, they may finish 10 th, but be first junior.

 

[Tumbleweed]

you can tell me im stupid, it wont hurt my feelings. i shoot a lot of pistol matches, they have a lot of classes also, but things like jr,women, over 40 over 50, mil and law enforcement, are categories, they still run in a main class. ie 600 super sport, they may finish 10 th, but be first junior.

Hardly stupid.... All I know about gun-races is that there is..a gun, some bullets, and a shooter-person....it seems like it would be okay to have a big gun person next to a little gun person....grandmas next to 7-yr. olds....because ya’ll aren’t pointing the pistola’s AT each other. That’s the difference—on the track every body gotta have similar equipment out on a race, because the differences in speed & riding style is potentially life endangering.

 

[Daredevil]

are we racing for trophies, or are we racing to race?

i really don't understand the age group racing. you are literally making a class simply so you can get a piece of plastic. its basically "oh man i can't beat the 25 year old, so i need to race against guys my age." do you honestly care that you will come in 10th in a "all inclusive" race vs 3rd in a 50 and up? you're still fast as balls, why do you need a trophy?

honestly why the AFM doesn't produce a double header schedule is beyond me. No one needs 5 fucking practices.

cut it to 2, cut down classes. race both saturday and sunday, you cut down a 1/3 of classes, but charge a 1/3 more for entrants but you get double the races......

 

[jrshooter]

are we racing for trophies, or are we racing to race?

i really don't understand the age group racing. you are literally making a class simply so you can get a piece of plastic. its basically "oh man i can't beat the 25 year old, so i need to race against guys my age." do you honestly care that you will come in 10th in a "all inclusive" race vs 3rd in a 50 and up? you're still fast as balls, why do you need a trophy?

honestly why the AFM doesn't produce a double header schedule is beyond me. No one needs 5 fucking practices.

cut it to 2, cut down classes. race both saturday and sunday, you cut down a 1/3 of classes, but charge a 1/3 more for entrants but you get double the races......

this is what im saying. you don't need a special race on age / gender or what ever . let them run what ever class there bike fits in. and if you want you recognize the top, age/ gender/ what ever you don't need a separate race.

 

[frozenuts]

are we racing for trophies, or are we racing to race?

i really don't understand the age group racing. you are literally making a class simply so you can get a piece of plastic. its basically "oh man i can't beat the 25 year old, so i need to race against guys my age." do you honestly care that you will come in 10th in a "all inclusive" race vs 3rd in a 50 and up? you're still fast as balls, why do you need a trophy?

honestly why the AFM doesn't produce a double header schedule is beyond me. No one needs 5 fucking practices.

cut it to 2, cut down classes. race both saturday and sunday, you cut down a 1/3 of classes, but charge a 1/3 more for entrants but you get double the races......

I am racing to race, and choose to race only in the F-40 class because most old timers are experienced and fragile. The only trophies on display in my house are for my absolute dominance in the costume contests.

 

[scratchpad]

Wasnt it you that was fudging your age in the AFM system so you could race the old guy class and get a trophy? Cant get one in your own "all inclusive" bracket?

are we racing for trophies, or are we racing to race?

i really don't understand the age group racing. you are literally making a class simply so you can get a piece of plastic. its basically "oh man i can't beat the 25 year old, so i need to race against guys my age." do you honestly care that you will come in 10th in a "all inclusive" race vs 3rd in a 50 and up? you're still fast as balls, why do you need a trophy?

honestly why the AFM doesn't produce a double header schedule is beyond me. No one needs 5 fucking practices.

cut it to 2, cut down classes. race both saturday and sunday, you cut down a 1/3 of classes, but charge a 1/3 more for entrants but you get double the races......

 

[ILOAD2]

Is there TRULY a safety issue being raised?
Are the 1st wave riders in race 2 not skilled enough to negotiate back markers,using skill and common sense in a CLUB RACING environment.

Those making comments about pairing down classes -

Put a decade in with the club- Take a look at the Long view and how Club racing remains viable. 600/1000 SS and SB classes do not keep things afloat in a stand alone configuration.

Critically Think about all the Chess moves before demanding a cull of ANY of the current structure.

 

[thedub]

Those making comments about pairing down classes -

Put a decade in with the club- Take a look at the Long view and how Club racing remains viable. 600/1000 SS and SB classes do not keep things afloat in a stand alone configuration.

Critically Think about all the Chess moves before demanding a cull of ANY of the current structure.

How is it that the other clubs in our region, like OMRRA, WMRRA, and CVMA, survive without having 15 different classes for every odd-ball bike under the sun?

 

[ILOAD2]

How is it that the other clubs in our region, like OMRRA, WMRRA, and CVMA, survive without having 15 different classes for every odd-ball bike under the sun?

Simple- WERA has MANY Regions and their Eastern region turnouts are keeping their Western Regions Viable and the others listed Do not carry the fees that the AFM pays in Track rental

 

[Holeshot]

How is it that the other clubs in our region, like OMRRA, WMRRA, and CVMA, survive without having 15 different classes for every odd-ball bike under the sun?

Simple- WERA has MANY Regions and their Eastern region turnouts are keeping their Western Regions Viable and the others listed Do not carry the fees that the AFM pays in Track rental

Yuri is correct; CVMA's track/ event costs are negligible. WMRRA and OMRAA are more, but nothing compares to AFM's event/ track cost(s), except WERA at Fontana. We run a high number of workers and ambulances to be as safe and professional as possible. That all has a higher cost than other clubs.

I know all the inside baseball to those clubs, but I'm not going to put it on a forum.

 

[scratchpad]

Is there TRULY a safety issue being raised?

Absolutely

 

[RACER774]

I have an idea?! Lets put the 4 waves that F40 LWT had to deal with behind F1 and see if there mad skills could navigate Afemme LWT/300SS/350SS/400SS/ and see how they like it!!!! Yes its TRULY a fkning safety issue!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Tumbleweed]

I have an idea?! Lets put the 4 waves that F40 LWT had to deal with behind F1 and see if there mad skills could navigate Afemme LWT/300SS/350SS/400SS/ and see how they like it!!!! Yes its TRULY a fning safety issue FTARD

:laughing.

I mean, you might get a “shame-shame” from a mod for name-calling, but still cracked me up.

 

[ILOAD2]

I would hope you're not calling me a fuck tard..
I came up through the same grids as you- used my head and negotiated the slower riders..It happens in Club racing..The times say that only a couple of riders where on a 3 second faster average pace. If the President can take observations and make some workable changes Im sure he will. In the Mean time-Work on your Race Craft

 

[TWF]

I would hope you're not calling me a fuck tard..
I came up through the same grids as you- used my head and negotiated the slower riders..It happens in Club racing..The times say that only a couple of riders where on a 3 second faster average pace. If the President can take observations and make some workable changes Im sure he will. In the Mean time-Work on your Race Craft

What average pace has to do with it? When you have 30+ mph difference in speed between bikes they don't belong together.