instagram will soon have the right sell photos uploaded to it

[n10sive]

Facebook (FB) + Instagram (I) = FBI

see. You figured it out. That's why those poisonous shrooms showed up in your yard :laughing

 

[mercurial]

I think Berto was being facetious. :dunno now

Plenty of the buying public wants to "communicate" with brands, at least in the action sports communities. Most brands don't understand how to properly communicate and engage with their consumers though.

Do you reddit? Go through and look at the brand "AMA"s - this is an incredibly easy way for a brand to have a discussion with it's consumer. The last YouTube AMA was deplorable - as a consumer I read the responses and envisioned the speaker to be a "stuffy pr/ad exec" and someone I would't hold in my list of friends, actually leaving a negative taste.

There are ways to do it right and to do it well but from experience it's often the more senior individuals who are the wall that must be climbed in order to do it right... It's a new business model for sure and I will put money on it - those 40+ year old ad/pr/marketing execs are the ones holding back the growth of social media ad platforms.

I don't usually look at reddit, and yes there is some room for companies to have legitimate outreach to consumers. That being said, it's applicable to a small number of brands and it's not something that's going to happen on a recurring basis; ask yourself, would you want to have an ongoing conversation with Colgate Palmolive about Crest toothpaste?

Branding is actually very simple; it's taking a signifier, the images and text that compose an ad, and linking it to the signified, the abstract meaning behind the ad, and repeating it ad nausea so it utterly penetrates your target audience's subconscious. It's about BMW showing you ads, starting when you were a teenager, that tell you that BMW is the ultimate driving experience and the epitome of refinement, so that when you hit 40 and you are finally in-market for an overpriced luxury automobile, BMW is one of the first brands that pop into your mind. I know it seems like interests and your friends ought to have some effect on your brand affinities, but in most cases it really doesn't matter. Crest doesn't care who you are, all they care about is being able to slowly shape your subconscious mind so you associate crest with a superior teeth cleaning experience. BMW may slightly care if your friends were all Audi fans that hate BMW, but not enough to devote any real attention to it; mostly they just want to know your approximate income, and your age range. And you don't need social media to target that.

The only way social media might be able to truly impact brand-based advertising is if they can definitively correlate that if you like to wake board, you tend to buy Bounty paper towels. If you like to hike, you buy organic milk. And a billion other similar correlations. That's going to require that they link your social profile with your purchasing patterns, which will be perceived to be extremely invasive from a privacy perspective.

 

[mean dad]

Trust me, there's a way to do it...but no one's even come close to getting it right yet. The photo part I thought Instagram/ Facebook would figure it out, but they haven't. Tim knows what I'm talking about, but no way will we discuss it here...why give the solution away for free!

:laughing

 

[m_asim]

we’re going to remove the language that raised the question

Suuuuuuure. The language about Instagram coopting users' images and selling them was pretty darn clear to me. Kevin Shitron wouldn't have agreed to have it posted had he not agreed to it. Either he is clueless or extremely inept. I don't think he is either.

I will download all the fud pictures from my instagram account and close it. Flickr I hope you will take me back.

 

[zombi]

it's all good when you're downloading some band's music on the free steal, but oh no woe is me don't steal my shitty picture I took all by myself

 

[Cycle61]

it's all good when you're downloading some band's music on the free steal, but oh no woe is me don't steal my shitty picture I took all by myself

For the record (har har) I have a long history of opposing that as well.

And a really crappy music collection. :laughing :cry

 

[mean dad]

it's all good when you're downloading some band's music on the free steal, but oh no woe is me don't steal my shitty picture I took all by myself

:laughing

Yeah, I saw that quote on fb, too.

 

[zombi]

it's funny because it's true lolz

 

[Stormdragon]

Interesting. If somebody posts one of my photos on Instagram, and I pursue the copyright violation (say for use in advertising, etc) then that person is responsible to me for payment of whatever amount is agreed upon by the mediating court.

While the ASMP is famous for the slogan 'Once It's Created, It's Copyrighted.', what they don't get around to mentioning is that if you want to sue for damages, or lost income, you have to register your copyright. If you don't register your copyright, all you can do is issue a cease and desist. I suspect this is why image sites like Instagram feel so confident in making media grabs like this. They know that you're really in no position to do any more than whine about it. Now if you've registered your copyright, and you place the image on Instagram's site, it'd be interesting to know where the courts would fall on that. Upholding the original copyright, or ruling that a blanket 'It's ours because we told you so.' would actually override the copyright.

I was thinking something more along the lines of what i was talking to cycle61 about. a pro photog sees his work being used in adverts with no compensation to him. sues instagram then who ever uploaded it gets stuck with the bill. What happens if the uploader paid for said photo would that absolve him/her from legal action?
for example let say I pay cycle61 to shoot wedding photos for me. I upload them on instagram to share with family/friends. The venue ends up using the instagram photos for some major international add campaign. Cycle61 then sees his photos plastered all over bill board and magazines with no reference to him being the photographer. He sues and it comes back down to the uploader since they paid for his services would he still be able to get compensation from them?

A professional photographer (who's edumacated) will sell 'use rights' to the end user. Usage for one print magazine run, or 1 years internet page usage, etc. The wedding thing is a bit of a gray area, as most 'end users' think they've bought what would be considered 'full rights' to the images, but technically the copyright remains with the photographer unless a written document stating a release of rights has been provided.

so what if you upload to instagram and put big fat watermarks across the good part of an image?

can/would they be able to erase that?

Split the channels, pick one to put a copyright mask into, darken it 5~10%, recombine the channels, and it's unnoticeable until the channels are split again. Proof of ownership, without an ugly copyright notice. (Don't forget to actually register your copyright though.)

 

[mercurial]

Now if you've registered your copyright, and you place the image on Instagram's site, it'd be interesting to know where the courts would fall on that. Upholding the original copyright, or ruling that a blanket 'It's ours because we told you so.' would actually override the copyright.

Easy peasy, Instagram just includes language in the EULA that says you grant a perpetual do-whatever-the-fuck-you-want license to them for any content you voluntarily choose to upload into their system.

 

[2legs2wheels]

While the ASMP is famous for the slogan 'Once It's Created, It's Copyrighted.', what they don't get around to mentioning is that if you want to sue for damages, or lost income, you have to register your copyright. If you don't register your copyright, all you can do is issue a cease and desist. I suspect this is why image sites like Instagram feel so confident in making media grabs like this. They know that you're really in no position to do any more than whine about it. Now if you've registered your copyright, and you place the image on Instagram's site, it'd be interesting to know where the courts would fall on that. Upholding the original copyright, or ruling that a blanket 'It's ours because we told you so.' would actually override the copyright.



A professional photographer (who's edumacated) will sell 'use rights' to the end user. Usage for one print magazine run, or 1 years internet page usage, etc. The wedding thing is a bit of a gray area, as most 'end users' think they've bought what would be considered 'full rights' to the images, but technically the copyright remains with the photographer unless a written document stating a release of rights has been provided.



Split the channels, pick one to put a copyright mask into, darken it 5~10%, recombine the channels, and it's unnoticeable until the channels are split again. Proof of ownership, without an ugly copyright notice. (Don't forget to actually register your copyright though.)

How do you register your copyright?

 

[SteelerFanatic]

The only way social media might be able to truly impact brand-based advertising is if they can definitively correlate that if you like to wake board, you tend to buy Bounty paper towels. If you like to hike, you buy organic milk. And a billion other similar correlations. That's going to require that they link your social profile with your purchasing patterns, which will be perceived to be extremely invasive from a privacy perspective.

Not discounting the rest of your post, but only want to add to the paragraph quoted.

Purchasing patterns is a lucrative market. Not only understanding what they are, but coming up with a way to shape them.

Do you think it's possible for a brand or company to shape your purchasing patterns?

Look at examples from Chase and B of A. They are now offering tiered returns based on where and when you shop somewhere. By shopping at genre1 during q1 you will get x% additional back in rewards.

When you look at Facebook they already commoditize your purchasing through FB credits. PayPal is looking to do this as well.

When it comes to brands, they all want a portion of your purchasing patterns. Every store has a branded payment device. By tracking your spending (and categorizing it for you to ease your budget planning!) they are more aware of what/when you buy then you even know.

Even GOOG themselves are getting into the game. Not only do they now have the Google Play service (and cards) they have the ability to provide Visa / MC (etc) cards for you. Could you imagine a time when you are using a Visa card issued/processed through Google?

Talk about expanding reach from online to offline.

 

[Stormdragon]

Easy peasy, Instagram just includes language in the EULA that says you grant a perpetual do-whatever-the-fuck-you-want license to them for any content you voluntarily choose to upload into their system.

Yeah. And the sign in the parking garage absolves the owners of all responsibility too. :laughing.

With enough cash, you can argue anything in court.

How do you register your copyright?

Fill a CD or a slide page with images, fill out a form, enclose $20, and send everything registered mail to the address on the form.

Use the keyword 'copyright' on the ASMP site, and it's all there, somewhere. I have been out of the industry for 10+ years, so I'm outta the loop on the details.

 

[Ol' Gravy Leg]

yep anything you put in the public domain (ie internet) you run the risk of someone else commercializing it.

a lot of this depends on how it is used though commercially (right now if you post a picture on FB, I can use that image in my own online marketing efforts - print and tv change requirements though for usage)

No you can't and publication is not considered public domain.

3) Per Instagram's TOS:

You represent and warrant that: (i) you own the Content posted by you on or through the Instagram Services or otherwise have the right to grant the license set forth in this section, (ii) the posting and use of your Content on or through the Instagram Services does not violate the privacy rights, publicity rights, copyrights, contract rights, intellectual property rights or any other rights of any person, and (iii) the posting of your Content on the Site does not result in a breach of contract between you and a third party. You agree to pay for all royalties, fees, and any other monies owing any person by reason of Content you post on or through the Instagram Services.​

They dropped the ball and fell short of indemnifying instagram for legal fees, litigation and damages. Oopsie.

Anyway, it looks like Instagram is recanting the language and clarifying their business model (hint: it involves shoving advertising into your photo feed.)

Looks like they finally ran it passed legal.

General Counsel to CEO: "Are you retarded?"

While the ASMP is famous for the slogan 'Once It's Created, It's Copyrighted.', what they don't get around to mentioning is that if you want to sue for damages, or lost income, you have to register your copyright. If you don't register your copyright, all you can do is issue a cease and desist.

Except that you can register anytime within 5 years, and that's not a hard deadline. But, within 3 months is opitmal.

How do you register your copyright?

Easy Peasy-online