Battle to save Santa Rosa

[gixxerjeff]

Just wanted to chime in here, Saturday I spent all day volunteering and brought a truck load of donations up.

:thumbup
Thank you.

 

[dravnx]

My GF used to walk the roads in Fountaingrove with a friend who, at the time, was a SF firefighter (now retired). Every time they would walk up there she (yes a female fire fighter) would say how dangerous it was to build along the top of that ridge.

 

[Moto Beck]

i hope you guys don't experience the same political B.S. and fraud that happened to many i knew when Hurricane Sandy hit in NJ. Many thought the hurricane was the worst part of it but the rebuild was more of a nightmare than the storm itself.

The area where my brother lived was completely leveled - houses ripped off their foundation from storm surge and acted like bowling balls ripping other houses from their foundation as the surf increased.

Water level in some of the houses on the barrier island were as high as 8-12 feet inside.

My brother house was spared - the flooding stopped just 2 streets from his home but many of his friends weren't as lucky.

Many of the people we helped the first few weeks of clean up were optimistic about rebuilding - then the government red tape hit - insurance companies jacked up flood insurance and hurricane insurance rates, FEMA was a nightmare (if you accepted aid there was a ton of paperwork with a lot of legal jargon that many didnt understand) and the worst of it was - the state released new flood zone areas that required many families to put their house on stilts (incredibly expensive) - and then 6 months after released a new map that demanded some areas be put on even higher stilts.

For some of the people who already paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to lift their home - they had to come back and do it again.

There were several contractors who were trying to capitalize on the rebuild and taking advantage of the temporary lift on permits to do really shitty job on building things back to code - leaving the expense on the home owners to find an alternative solution to do it right.

Many areas of the shore are still a mess - it's heart breaking - several people walked away from their homes.

The big difference here is that fire coverage with insurance would appear to be more black and white than those who had hurricane vs. flood insurance in NJ. The storm was actually classified as "super storm" when it hit NJ which many argued saved insurance companies billions of dollars by refusing to pay out claims related to hurricane insurance policies.

The purpose of this post is not to spread doom and gloom - but i hope for those who need to rebuild - that they take a systematic and educated process to do it right vs a path to do it quickly.

i.e.

- research the contractor you're employing to work on your home to ensure things are being built to code,

- ask questions if you're taking FEMA aid (many who took FEMA aid in NJ didn't know that it came with a mandatory flood insurance requirement that cost many tens of thousands a year to secure) - know what stipulations come with the aid and prepare for it

- research how insurance rates may be impacted in the area you're building

And for those that didnt lose your home - it's a good reminder for all of us who live in an area prone to potential fires to review insurance policies to ensure we're properly covered in the event that this happens to our homes.

 

[1962siia]

We are still not able to get in to my mom's area. I've seen pics of the National Guard securing valuables and looking for human remains a few blocks over so I assume thats part of why we still cant get in.

We are going this morning to her insurance agent's office to ask some questions/get clarification about sifting for heirloom type things and to try to get a complete copy of her policy. Literally every house in the area is gone. Every house that I delivered the newspaper to as a kid is gone. Several neighbors have already announced they wont rebuild due to either age or circumstances. How do you put a value on things like pictures of relatives no longer living? Art work made by family members 180 years ago? It's going to be an interesting process.

Thanks to all the first responders and volunteers. Thanks to all the people helping their friends and family through this. The outpouring of support has been incredible to watch. :thumbup

 

[canyonrat]

As for rent. Rent will and should go up slightly. Part of that will be a land lord asking for one amount and the renter offering more because THEY MUST HAVE A PLACE TO LIVE. And that will then drive up the rents that follow that transaction.

As for contractors. Go with people who have been in the area for awhile and better yet have been in the area and survived the great recession. BUT the problem will clearly be focused on not enough contractors and workers, which has been going on since the first of the year. We have all learned to say "no" to what ever project is brought to us. My contractor is booked out about 6 months. I have a carpenter buddy that lives near the river and I told him this year we will see even bigger flooding then last year. So when he looses his home then he will have to leave the area, and we will loose yet another carpenter. The new storm. Moves in, stalls, dumps a years worth of rain in a few days then is gone. Much like this fire. Most of the homes and I mean MOST burned down in the first 12 hours. The winds came up, super strong, then went away. There is a theme to all of this if you don't see it.

Also, I don't know about this, but it might be worth looking into seeing if having a lawyer represent you to your insurance company might be worth it.???

 

[LakeMerrit]

Now I need to invent a new fire prevention system that everyone is gonna want for their homes.

I was actually just sketching some ideas for something along these lines for an Oakland hills house. I've seen the stories of rural residents saving their houses by throwing hoses with lawn sprinklers up on the roof and all over the property and leaving them on prior to evacuating....

What if I hard piped high output reciprocating sprinklers to all corners of my roof (or more depending on size and spray, accounting for reduced water pressure during an emergency), and all over the rest of the property as well. If a fire is coming, throw open the mains before evacuating and let the sprinklers drench the roof (and the whole property ideally). Other than the piping and cost to install, the only costs should be ~yearly testing of the sprinkler systems?

If we could design something like that it could help folks a lot in fire prone areas.

Yes I'm posting this idea on a public forum, because I don't have a patented product and if this sounds like a good idea to anyone building, rebuilding, or simply living in a fire prone area I'll be fucked if greed over a potential product stops potentially saving folks' houses in the near-er term.

 

[Moto Beck]

As for contractors. Go with people who have been in the area for awhile and better yet have been in the area and survived the great recession. BUT the problem will clearly be focused on not enough contractors and workers, which has been going on since the first of the year. We have all learned to say "no" to what ever project is brought to us.

This is the exact problem that happened in NJ and the environment these scumbag contractors thrive on. They prey on the impatient and the desperate. The good contractors are already booked up. The ones that can start tomorrow have to be met with a lot of research and skepticism.

 

[Rumbo Sur]

I was actually just sketching some ideas for something along these lines for an Oakland hills house. I've seen the stories of rural residents saving their houses by throwing hoses with lawn sprinklers up on the roof and all over the property and leaving them on prior to evacuating....

What if I hard piped high output reciprocating sprinklers to all corners of my roof (or more depending on size and spray, accounting for reduced water pressure during an emergency), and all over the rest of the property as well. If a fire is coming, throw open the mains before evacuating and let the sprinklers drench the roof (and the whole property ideally). Other than the piping and cost to install, the only costs should be ~yearly testing of the sprinkler systems?

If we could design something like that it could help folks a lot in fire prone areas.

Yes I'm posting this idea on a public forum, because I don't have a patented product and if this sounds like a good idea to anyone building, rebuilding, or simply living in a fire prone area I'll be fucked if greed over a potential product stops potentially saving folks' houses in the near-er term.

It's a great idea IMO ... and I believe it could work because I witnessed BIG fires years ago in L.A. I grew up near the Bel Air fire. As kids we rode our dirt bikes all over gawking and watching shit burn. At 15 it's what you do! :teeth

Most fire crews never even bothered to try to save a house.

They were more concerned with stopping fire's progress and saving "most" of the neighborhood. Homes ahead or behind fire line were ... on there own. :wtf

The smart owners stayed home with a hose, standing on the roof, keeping things wet. IT WORKS! ... I personally saw big embers fall on evacuated wood shingle roof homes and start a fire on a million dollar home. (in 1962 money!) It would slowly start on fire and burn ... and NO ONE ever showed up. Count this times 10 that I witnessed. A guy with a hose could have easily stopped it ... and a few did, but most left figuring fire dept would keep watch. NOT A CHANCE!

The really smart home owners (most ALL have pools in this area) had massive submersible pumps dipped into the pool with a big fire hose.

My buddies brothers were volunteer fire fighters so they set up this system on his 7 acre property using their pool. Amazingly effective. A couple out buildings and trees burnt but nothing got close to main house, not within 50 yards or so.

That fire hose could shoot water about 75 yards. I did time manning the hose (hard to hold onto!) It was a 24/7 job. They soaked down everything constantly for about 3 days. They also saved the homes on two neighbors on either side of them.

But when the Santana winds blow strong ... USE CAUTION ... the wind creates a fire storm which can kill you quick.

A few years later I was living in Topanga Canyon (circa 1966) and over the next 10 years I witnessed several MASSIVE fires there ... saw houses literally explode across the canyon. Very hard to stop this in this very overgrown Chapparrel area. Fire Fighters could do very little ... but try to save lives. All witnessed listening to Spirit's Randy California singing
"Canyon's Burning" from their first album. (yes, I'm old!)

But if you're not 100% surrounded by forest or dense Chapparel ... then with your above sprinkler system you most likely could save your house if done right.

But if the winds come up strong ... best have an escape plan.

If you leave it alone, unmanned ... it may not work depending on surrounding growth. Don't leave your home ... if you want to keep it.
Risky? Yep.

As kids, on our Bultaco's we could go anywhere and the police were too busy to care. The fire fighters thought we were nuts. We were. At 15 years old we weren't afraid of much after racing at Ascot! We rode all around the Santa Monica mountains and knew every fire road and trails perfectly. It was ALL on fire! I worried as my Pursang had a fuel leak! :rofl Somehow we survived!

 

[CDONA]

One of the big fails is power loss. Most of these DIY saves need 120 AC power.
I've seen interviews of homeowners doing ok right up until power failure.

Old style high-rise buildings had water tanks on the roof to supply water without pumps thru out the building. Old pix of Truckee come to mind.

 

[firstbuell]

[edited].....As kids we rode our dirt bikes all over gawking and watching shit burn.....

.....on our Bultaco's we could go anywhere and the police were too busy to care. The fire fighters thought we were nuts. We were. At 15 years old we weren't afraid of much after racing at Ascot! We rode all around the Santa Monica mountains and knew every fire road and trails perfectly. It was ALL on fire! I worried as my Pursang had a fuel leak! :rofl Somehow we survived!

yeah, wut could go wrong?

 

[LakeMerrit]

One of the big fails is power loss. Most of these DIY saves need 120 AC power.
I've seen interviews of homeowners doing ok right up until power failure.

Old style high-rise buildings had water tanks on the roof to supply water without pumps thru out the building. Old pix of Truckee come to mind.

This would have to run off of water pressure alone. You would open the valves manually prior to evacuating. Unless you live on the top of a mountain or rely on well water, there would be more than adequate pressure from your lateral main (at least in the Oakland hills)

 

[Krooklyn]

I was actually just sketching some ideas for something along these lines for an Oakland hills house. I've seen the stories of rural residents saving their houses by throwing hoses with lawn sprinklers up on the roof and all over the property and leaving them on prior to evacuating....

What if I hard piped high output reciprocating sprinklers to all corners of my roof (or more depending on size and spray, accounting for reduced water pressure during an emergency), and all over the rest of the property as well. If a fire is coming, throw open the mains before evacuating and let the sprinklers drench the roof (and the whole property ideally). Other than the piping and cost to install, the only costs should be ~yearly testing of the sprinkler systems?

If we could design something like that it could help folks a lot in fire prone areas.

Yes I'm posting this idea on a public forum, because I don't have a patented product and if this sounds like a good idea to anyone building, rebuilding, or simply living in a fire prone area I'll be fucked if greed over a potential product stops potentially saving folks' houses in the near-er term.

I had this same idea (an automated sprinkler system on top of your roof) when the fires started last week. I got the idea from the movie Planes 2. I think it's only a matter of time before they become required by code in CA. There's a lot of similar sprinkler systems being sold out of AUS for some reason.

http://www.duralirrigation.com.au/product/ember-defender-roof-sprinkler.html

 

[dravnx]

Until everyone in the neighborhood turns on their fire sprinkler systems and there is no water pressure left for actual fire fighting. Here in Santa Rosa, SRFD was asking people not to water their roofs for this reason.
Consider what most roofs are made from-composition. A blend of cellulose or fiberglass and asphalt. Try to light asphalt on fire. It takes a lot of heat and flame. If there are enough embers flying around to ignite a roof, you're in a shit storm. A member of Calfire told me that most houses burn when the embers are sucked into the gable vents.

 

[LakeMerrit]

Until everyone in the neighborhood turns on their fire sprinkler systems and there is no water pressure left for actual fire fighting. Here in Santa Rosa, SRFD was asking people not to water their roofs for this reason.
Consider what most roofs are made from-composition. A blend of cellulose or fiberglass and asphalt. Try to light asphalt on fire. It takes a lot of heat and flame. If there are enough embers flying around to ignite a roof, you're in a shit storm. A member of Calfire told me that most houses burn when the embers are sucked into the gable vents.

Good knowledge. Maybe a best practice if you're evacuating with enough forewarning would be to cover your vents with some sort of foil? Or make motorized vents that you can seal up while power is still on?

Food for thought. 99% of energy currently focused on helping current victims though.

 

[EastBayDave]

I also have been reading horror stories on some asshole citizens who are deciding to double and even triple rent amounts, I'm fairly confident that during a state of emergency that price gouging is illegal and that includes rentals. More importantly, who sees an absolutely terrible situation like this and decides to make even more money on it? No offense but, they need to be shot.

Been looking at homes up there for years now. Noted yesterday was a couple homes I've been looking at that DOUBLED in price. Yes, doubled. One $650K home is now $1.2 million; went up overnight.

These people need to be shot....:mad

 

[Rumbo Sur]

One of the big fails is power loss. Most of these DIY saves need 120 AC power.
I've seen interviews of homeowners doing ok right up until power failure.

Old style high-rise buildings had water tanks on the roof to supply water without pumps thru out the building. Old pix of Truckee come to mind.

Really good point. Many folks in L.A. fires had their own engine powered water pumps and generators. Granted, most folks won't have this ... but a simple 2K to 5K generator is not too much an ask and can power basics.

If you have solar you may have banks of batteries which could be adapted to power just about everything. Solar panels could also help re-charge batt banks and provide house power when PGE dumps you.

Just a thought ...:afm199

 

[CDONA]

Lots of fire engines rolling around restaurants in Fairfield yesterday, along with convoys heading north on 505.

I guess the party is over.:thumbup

I was in Oregon from 8/14 to 9/24, smoke was in the air for most of my time in La Grande & Hood River.
I return to VV, snag a free tix to the Silverado Golf tourney final Sunday and roll back to VV via 121/128 before hell starts up again.

Oregon doesn't seem to fight fires, until the economy takes a hit (closing I 84). They mostly wait for the rain.
Calif jumped on air attacks way harder than Or. did, past knowledge on economic losses when smoke chases away tourists?

Glad to see this over in a week, but the cost of all the aircraft used. I could watch planes returning to Sacto to reload. KCRA 3 showed a time lapse clip of retardant refilling operations of the many planes.

 

[ThumperX]

Northern Ca, at least the areas where thee fires are burning, is densely populated. I think the efforts we are witnessing are an attempt to mitigate loss of life and property.