Reanimating a greybike RVF400 (NC35)
- Thread starter RVFRick
- Start date
Sharky
Well-known member
RVFRick
Well-known member
Session 45: She runs....kinda
Of course it's a long winded story that I don't have time to explain right now (busy Mother's Day weekend, plus a big trip coming up, work, yadayda). I'll try to post later this week.
https://youtu.be/4Sr_8P9FMwg
Of course it's a long winded story that I don't have time to explain right now (busy Mother's Day weekend, plus a big trip coming up, work, yadayda). I'll try to post later this week.
https://youtu.be/4Sr_8P9FMwg
295566
Numbers McGee
I'm very glad you didn't create some new crankcase ventilation holes in that experiment! :thumbup
RVFRick
Well-known member
Session 45: Smells like victory
Okay, so after sorting out the cable routing to my satisfaction I couldn't think of anything else that would prevent trying to run her. I let Anthony know of the impending milestone and he said he had time to help out. While he was on his way down form SF I checked to make sure all systems would be go:
Engine oil full.
Cooling system full.
Battery charged.
DIY aux fuel tank. Found it.
Keys, check.
Gasoline, check.
I futzed around with some extra parts that I can't seem to place. Maybe someone can tell me where they go. They were in the same baggie from when I took off the radiator so you'd think it'd be a big enough clue but not for me. I'll need help or more research.
After about an hour Anthony shows up and it's show time. Double check all items and we when the bike out of the garage into a more open area lest we get fumed out or start a fire. :wtf
We're both excited and I'm also a bit nervous. I have expectation of a sweet V4 burbling to life and pissing off the neighbors. :teeth
We sort thru the 5 rubber tubes sticking up out of the carb area and identify the gas feed (looking at the underside of the rusted fuel tank helps identify what's what and what goes where. A single fat tube is where the fuel feeds in.
I have an old garment steamer I rescued from garbage day thinking I could fix it (couldn't) but I repurposed it to be my riding jacket hanger and to use as an IV drip stand for the auxiliary fuel tank :laughing
The DIY fuel bottle has a carabiner that clips to the steamer. I trim the Tygon tubing to a good working length and slip it into the carb fuel tube. We unscrew the bottle from the lid and look inside. It doesn't smell like gas. Oh yeah, I must have filled it with denatured alcohol just after I built it to check for leaks. I didn't want to use gas as we've learnt that gas does not store well for long periods of time. Anthony dumps it out while I go to the garage and grab the gas can. The denatured alcohol has a strong and distinct odor. I unscrew the gas can and start to fill the bottle with the fuel. I'm skimp as I don't think we need a whole lot of gas. Anthony says to fill'er up so I oblige. We both comment how the alcohol smell is still noticeable but pay no mind. I say not to worry as the gasoline ratio is far greater than any alcohol residue that remained in the bottle.
We partially screw the container back onto the hanging lid and leave it cracked open for venting. Okay this is it, crack open the lawnmower petcock and watch the fuel meander down the clear Tygon tubing and into the carbs. It looks clear like purified water. Glug, glug, it fills faster than I expected. A few air bubbles migrate up but that's about it. Check for leaks. No leaks, drips or puddles on the ground. Yay! No drama is a good thing.
I turn to Anthony and double check that I'm not forgetting anything. The moment has arrived. Roll the cameras. Let's do this. I insert the key in the ignition and turn it to ON - the dash lights up. Kill switch flicked from OFF to RUN. All systems are go. I hold my breath and push the starter button. The starter churns and the engine revs to a soft 1000rpm first try! OMG! Baby's first breath! She's alive!!! The revolutions softly fade to zero within 10 seconds. Like a newborn calf's first steps - wobbly and unsteady. No problem. I try again and same thing happens. Being patient I try several more times but the same symptoms - engine starts and peaks to 1000 rpm, then drifts to sleep. Hmmm. Anthony says something ain't right. I'm wanting to repeat but he says it's useless.
Did I misconnect the throttle lines? he's asks. Nope. Are all the hoses connected? Yup. Maybe you need to put the airbox and air filter on to restrict flow. I rummage thru the garage and come back with the parts. They easily mount with a #2 Phillips driver. I put in a new HiFlow air filter from the UK (BARF eBay coupon purchase :thumbup). Okay, she's ready for another try.
We make a few more attempts but the results are the same. We try various settings: with and without choke, throttle cracked, tweaked, etc. All sots of permutations. In the end choke on and zero throttle is the only way she starts. Too bad she won't idle
We pause to discuss. What the heck is wrong. Anthony says it’s gotta to be something simple and really obvious but nothing jumps to mind. I suggest that maybe there is an air leak. The bike starts and then slowly dies like a match burning out. I suggest we diagnose using some carb cleaner to search for leaks. Anthony agrees. Off comes the airbox and we focus on the infamous insulators. No leak there. Next focus on the three brass tubes near the base of the air funnels. Anthony starts the bike I spray. Whoa the engine revs higher then dies. Aha! Is it possible I failed to sufficiently clean the carbs? :wtf I was meticulous. I ran them through the ultrasonic cleaner several times and blew them out with dry nitrogen. Did I insert a wire to clean them out real good? Nope. Didn't use any needles, wires or fishing line. Just acetone, sound waves and compressed gas. Maybe a major oversight. I was so confident I cleaned the carbs to pristine perfection. Now I had doubts. I can’t believe that I have to pull the carbs off and do a repeat cleaning.
We discuss further ideas. Why would carb cleaner on one of the 4 carbs cause the engine to run better? Sure it’s fuel for the engine but if only one cylinder were misfiring the engine should still idle albeit poorly. My engine runs smoothly but unsustained. Anthony suggests we check the bowls to see if they are filled. Good idea. Old hat at this I fetch the #2 Daiso phillips, loosen the clamps and pup the carbs off with the plastic mallet handle. I hold the carbs upright while Anthony unscrews each of the bowl bleeders. Out flows the fuel dripping onto the lid of my plastic garbage can. All four bowls check out. Then I smell it, there's that alcohol smell again. I dip my fingers in it and smell. WTF! That’s not gas its denatured alcohol!!! How can that be, we emptied out the bottle and refilled it with….. uh oh. I pick up the red gas can, crack it open and sniff. OMG it’s alcohol! Genius filled it with alcohol way back when and failed to label the container (lab protocol 101).
Of course this explained the mystery of the crap idling. I was confident the engine would run no problem with gasoline. All we had to do was drain and add some. I have two gas cans in the garage one I know I took to Shell a few weeks ago and filled with Shell 91 octane, the other contained alcohol. Sheesh! Back to the garage and low an behold, the same gas can only this one…sniff, sniff…had the proper stench of dinosaur juice.
Drain bowls (sorry Viton seals, you got a brutal first test :teeth) and empty the aux tank for the second time. Fill with dinosaur juice, petcock on, trickle fill the carbs. Ready for take two…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=_vEIEzya6N8
Okay, so after sorting out the cable routing to my satisfaction I couldn't think of anything else that would prevent trying to run her. I let Anthony know of the impending milestone and he said he had time to help out. While he was on his way down form SF I checked to make sure all systems would be go:
Engine oil full.
Cooling system full.
Battery charged.
DIY aux fuel tank. Found it.
Keys, check.
Gasoline, check.
I futzed around with some extra parts that I can't seem to place. Maybe someone can tell me where they go. They were in the same baggie from when I took off the radiator so you'd think it'd be a big enough clue but not for me. I'll need help or more research.
After about an hour Anthony shows up and it's show time. Double check all items and we when the bike out of the garage into a more open area lest we get fumed out or start a fire. :wtf
We're both excited and I'm also a bit nervous. I have expectation of a sweet V4 burbling to life and pissing off the neighbors. :teeth
We sort thru the 5 rubber tubes sticking up out of the carb area and identify the gas feed (looking at the underside of the rusted fuel tank helps identify what's what and what goes where. A single fat tube is where the fuel feeds in.
I have an old garment steamer I rescued from garbage day thinking I could fix it (couldn't) but I repurposed it to be my riding jacket hanger and to use as an IV drip stand for the auxiliary fuel tank :laughing
The DIY fuel bottle has a carabiner that clips to the steamer. I trim the Tygon tubing to a good working length and slip it into the carb fuel tube. We unscrew the bottle from the lid and look inside. It doesn't smell like gas. Oh yeah, I must have filled it with denatured alcohol just after I built it to check for leaks. I didn't want to use gas as we've learnt that gas does not store well for long periods of time. Anthony dumps it out while I go to the garage and grab the gas can. The denatured alcohol has a strong and distinct odor. I unscrew the gas can and start to fill the bottle with the fuel. I'm skimp as I don't think we need a whole lot of gas. Anthony says to fill'er up so I oblige. We both comment how the alcohol smell is still noticeable but pay no mind. I say not to worry as the gasoline ratio is far greater than any alcohol residue that remained in the bottle.
We partially screw the container back onto the hanging lid and leave it cracked open for venting. Okay this is it, crack open the lawnmower petcock and watch the fuel meander down the clear Tygon tubing and into the carbs. It looks clear like purified water. Glug, glug, it fills faster than I expected. A few air bubbles migrate up but that's about it. Check for leaks. No leaks, drips or puddles on the ground. Yay! No drama is a good thing.
I turn to Anthony and double check that I'm not forgetting anything. The moment has arrived. Roll the cameras. Let's do this. I insert the key in the ignition and turn it to ON - the dash lights up. Kill switch flicked from OFF to RUN. All systems are go. I hold my breath and push the starter button. The starter churns and the engine revs to a soft 1000rpm first try! OMG! Baby's first breath! She's alive!!! The revolutions softly fade to zero within 10 seconds. Like a newborn calf's first steps - wobbly and unsteady. No problem. I try again and same thing happens. Being patient I try several more times but the same symptoms - engine starts and peaks to 1000 rpm, then drifts to sleep. Hmmm. Anthony says something ain't right. I'm wanting to repeat but he says it's useless.
Did I misconnect the throttle lines? he's asks. Nope. Are all the hoses connected? Yup. Maybe you need to put the airbox and air filter on to restrict flow. I rummage thru the garage and come back with the parts. They easily mount with a #2 Phillips driver. I put in a new HiFlow air filter from the UK (BARF eBay coupon purchase :thumbup). Okay, she's ready for another try.
We make a few more attempts but the results are the same. We try various settings: with and without choke, throttle cracked, tweaked, etc. All sots of permutations. In the end choke on and zero throttle is the only way she starts. Too bad she won't idle
We pause to discuss. What the heck is wrong. Anthony says it’s gotta to be something simple and really obvious but nothing jumps to mind. I suggest that maybe there is an air leak. The bike starts and then slowly dies like a match burning out. I suggest we diagnose using some carb cleaner to search for leaks. Anthony agrees. Off comes the airbox and we focus on the infamous insulators. No leak there. Next focus on the three brass tubes near the base of the air funnels. Anthony starts the bike I spray. Whoa the engine revs higher then dies. Aha! Is it possible I failed to sufficiently clean the carbs? :wtf I was meticulous. I ran them through the ultrasonic cleaner several times and blew them out with dry nitrogen. Did I insert a wire to clean them out real good? Nope. Didn't use any needles, wires or fishing line. Just acetone, sound waves and compressed gas. Maybe a major oversight. I was so confident I cleaned the carbs to pristine perfection. Now I had doubts. I can’t believe that I have to pull the carbs off and do a repeat cleaning.
We discuss further ideas. Why would carb cleaner on one of the 4 carbs cause the engine to run better? Sure it’s fuel for the engine but if only one cylinder were misfiring the engine should still idle albeit poorly. My engine runs smoothly but unsustained. Anthony suggests we check the bowls to see if they are filled. Good idea. Old hat at this I fetch the #2 Daiso phillips, loosen the clamps and pup the carbs off with the plastic mallet handle. I hold the carbs upright while Anthony unscrews each of the bowl bleeders. Out flows the fuel dripping onto the lid of my plastic garbage can. All four bowls check out. Then I smell it, there's that alcohol smell again. I dip my fingers in it and smell. WTF! That’s not gas its denatured alcohol!!! How can that be, we emptied out the bottle and refilled it with….. uh oh. I pick up the red gas can, crack it open and sniff. OMG it’s alcohol! Genius filled it with alcohol way back when and failed to label the container (lab protocol 101).
Of course this explained the mystery of the crap idling. I was confident the engine would run no problem with gasoline. All we had to do was drain and add some. I have two gas cans in the garage one I know I took to Shell a few weeks ago and filled with Shell 91 octane, the other contained alcohol. Sheesh! Back to the garage and low an behold, the same gas can only this one…sniff, sniff…had the proper stench of dinosaur juice.
Drain bowls (sorry Viton seals, you got a brutal first test :teeth) and empty the aux tank for the second time. Fill with dinosaur juice, petcock on, trickle fill the carbs. Ready for take two…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=_vEIEzya6N8
stever
Well-known member
On the K0 CB750 Honda used a single cable for each carb much like you would see on the Mikuni VM series carbs. The story I heard was under wide open throttle the slides would stay open on the column of air rushing thru the carb and the slide spring was not strong enough to close them. The next model had a positive close linkage with a spring on the cable crank that was very strong. We had some customers complain about that but better a sore wrist than a bike running wide open with no way to shut the throttle.
RVFRick
Well-known member
Thanks everyone!
Engine running was a big milestone. Lots of smoke billowed but attributing to spilt oil when I lubed the engine while pushing the bike around the neighborhood.
Some was out the exhaust but hoping it was the lube I squirted over the valves and into the cylinders. Will run the engine longer and observe. Maybe a compression check is past due.
The leftover parts are nagging at me. Need to figure them out. My cursory look in the factory parts manual and my photo collection didn't help. Will do a deeper dive.
For synching I plan to diy a gauge set with water and tubing. Will be fun and educational.
The tank needs cleaning. I swear the thing is a breeding ground for rust. When I put it in storage it had some flash superficial rust at least that's what I recall from 8 months ago. I looked the other day and it looked like the inside of a geoed stone all sharp and crumbly covered. :mad perhaps some mechanical abrasion with nuts and bolts, then acid wash or electrolysis. Not sure.
Engine running was a big milestone. Lots of smoke billowed but attributing to spilt oil when I lubed the engine while pushing the bike around the neighborhood.
Some was out the exhaust but hoping it was the lube I squirted over the valves and into the cylinders. Will run the engine longer and observe. Maybe a compression check is past due.
The leftover parts are nagging at me. Need to figure them out. My cursory look in the factory parts manual and my photo collection didn't help. Will do a deeper dive.
For synching I plan to diy a gauge set with water and tubing. Will be fun and educational.
The tank needs cleaning. I swear the thing is a breeding ground for rust. When I put it in storage it had some flash superficial rust at least that's what I recall from 8 months ago. I looked the other day and it looked like the inside of a geoed stone all sharp and crumbly covered. :mad perhaps some mechanical abrasion with nuts and bolts, then acid wash or electrolysis. Not sure.
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Shigeta
Moving Chicane
Rick,
I've had tremendous luck with POR15's tank repair kit. I had a DR200 with a tank as you described. I didn't think it was revivable, but the $50 kit was worth a shot at least. If you follow the instructions well, it works exactly as intended. I couldn't be happier.
I've had tremendous luck with POR15's tank repair kit. I had a DR200 with a tank as you described. I didn't think it was revivable, but the $50 kit was worth a shot at least. If you follow the instructions well, it works exactly as intended. I couldn't be happier.
RVFRick
Well-known member
Rick - What's the latest on the RVF? When are we going out for an RVF only ride?
I've made no progress. :rolleyes I think it was a week after after I got the bike running Jessica and I went on a 20-year-late honeymoon. Two weeks in Italy!
Upon our return home work got busier than ever, of course. Then got shipped off to a conference in Atlanta for a 5 days and I just got back home Monday around lunchtime. It had been so long since my last ride I HAD to scratch the itch - I ditched work and rode 130 miles thru the Santa Cruz Mountains all afternoon :ride :teeth.
So next up is the gas tank which I brought to my house. I plan to fill it with vinegar tonight to start the cleaning process. I think it could take a week. I don't want to use POR just yet as I think it unnecessary for the condition of my tank.
My plan is:
Vinegar soak along with some ceramic tumbling media to scrub off the crust.
Rinse and inspect.
If still remaining rust I will try de-rusting via electrolysis.
BTW I have been thinking about this, I know flash rust is likely to occur. It happened last time I cleaned the tank and emptied it. The rust came within minutes :mad
Probably not a big deal as the rust is mostly cosmetic. But what if after rinsing the tank with deionized water I also drop in some chunks of frozen CO2 aka dry ice. As the ice melts it turns to CO2 gas which will exclude oxygen from the interior of the tank because it is is heavier than air so will push out all other gases, namely oxygen, and make rust formation imposible. It will also give me time to swish around oil and gas to coat the tank interior and also do a final rinse (gas/oil). What do you think, crazy idea? :cool
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