Sweden took a relatively unique approach to Covid and I feared the worst...

[phil turdwater]

Yes, they were the "perfect" candidate to try this sort of approach, no question.

Less than 1/10th the population density of the UK to cite just one favorable statistic.

that and Swedes are generally smarter than Americans and actually trust in their form of government enough that most people take advisement seriously. Then again, the Swedish government is much better to the people than here so there's that.

I don't personally agree with the approach but anybody that thinks that there is no slowdown there and it's all just business as usual is quite wrong.

 

[GAJ]

I don't personally agree with the approach but anybody that thinks that there is no slowdown there and it's all just business as usual is quite wrong.

I agree.

And they have made some stimulus moves worth about half their GDP which as a percentage is more than here.

But their national debt in 2017 was about 39 percent of GDP compared to 105 percent here.



https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...kage-worth-more-than-30-billion-idUSKBN21311G

 

[Lonster]

Have you seen this info?
https://youtu.be/xfLVxx_lBLU
The guys in the trenches with the science, facts and data.

 

[Climber]

Is this video being posted all over facebook? :wtf

This is the 4th thread this same video has been posted in.

 

[Archimedes]

Was discussing this with a FB friend a few days ago. Sweden's health care system combined with low population density are key factors. Time will tell how successful it ends up being.

:laughing Their healthcare system made less people get it?

Sweden is proving that the best cure may be to sweat out the fever rather than kill the host...

Meanwhile here in America little despot civil servants are destroying the lives of millions of people. I'm really surprised that more people aren't marching in the streets at this point. But I guess when you're getting free money from the government and you're getting egged on by the socialists to refuse to pay rent, you have a little time. Unfortunately, when this is all over, those same people are going to find that they were snookered and they have no future because there are no jobs. Maybe we can just print more free money.

 

[Lonster]

Is this video being posted all over facebook? :wtf

This is the 4th thread this same video has been posted in.

It is. Have you watched it? Worth the watch.

 

[rothmans]

It is. Have you watched it? Worth the watch.

Climber and a police officer here have fully debunked these two Doctors. For one thing the doctors have a business so they have an agenda and they are also trying to convey a "message" according to Climber. I got fooled by it too.

 

[Dr_SLO]

It is. Have you watched it? Worth the watch.

Climber and a police officer here have fully debunked these two Doctors. For one thing the doctors have a business so they have an agenda and they are also trying to convey a "message" according to Climber. I got fooled by it too.

The scientific community has debunked that video. It does not hold up to scrutiny. The mathematical juggling is flat out incorrect.

 

[Bumpits]

The scientific community has debunked that video. It does not hold up to scrutiny. The mathematical juggling is flat out incorrect.

That isnt really true, is it? Where's this debunking?

 

[Dr_SLO]

That isnt really true, is it? Where's this debunking?

Not the best choice of source but literally the first thing I found...
https://calmatters.org/health/2020/04/debunking-bakersfield-doctors-covid-spread-conclusions/

There is not enough time in the world to keep up with all the nonsense that's being portrayed as science.

If I find something better I will post it.

 

[Bumpits]

Not the best choice of source but literally the first thing I found...
https://calmatters.org/health/2020/04/debunking-bakersfield-doctors-covid-spread-conclusions/

There is not enough time in the world to keep up with all the nonsense that's being portrayed as science.

If I find something better I will post it.

The doctors should never have assumed that the patients they tested — who came for walk-in COVID-19 tests or who sought urgent care for symptoms they experienced in the middle of a pandemic — are representative of the general population, said Dr. Carl Bergstrom, a University of Washington biologist who specializes in infectious disease modeling. He likened their extrapolations to “estimating the average height of Americans from the players on an NBA court.” And most credible studies of COVID-19 death rates in reality are far higher than the ones the doctors presented

And yet every single action taken regarding covid-19 including the shelter in place is based on tests with identical statistical errors. Singling them out for this is pretty disingenuous when everyone from the states to canada, to the UK has only been testing people with severe respiratory symptoms, which last I checked only occur in about 15% of cases. So from that perspective, their testing is at least consistent with every other test being done.

 

[Climber]

And yet every single action taken regarding covid-19 including the shelter in place is based on tests with identical statistical errors. Singling them out for this is pretty disingenuous when everyone from the states to canada, to the UK has only been testing people with severe respiratory symptoms, which last I checked only occur in about 15% of cases.

Incorrect.

If they were showing symptoms, over the last couple weeks, they got tested, and not only if they had 'severe respiratory symptoms'.

 

[Bumpits]

Incorrect.

If they were showing symptoms, over the last couple weeks, they got tested, and not only if they had 'severe respiratory symptoms'.

I was told twice by call nurses in contra costa county (Contra Costa Regional Medical Center and John Muir respectively) that i was ONLY allowed to get a test if I had "Severe respiratory symptoms." Same verbiage both times so their responses were rehearsed. And I've heard the same thing throughout the state. I've heard it on BBC where anchormen were blasting the NHS. Etc.
Tried to find the video but here's the criteria for the NHS: https://www.itv.com/news/2020-03-25...-covid19-princecharles-charles-camilla-royal/

 

[Climber]

I was told twice by call nurses in contra costa county (Contra Costa Regional Medical Center and John Muir respectively) that i was ONLY allowed to get a test if I had "Severe respiratory symptoms." Same verbiage both times so their responses were rehearsed. And I've heard the same thing throughout the state. I've heard it on BBC where anchormen were blasting the NHS. Etc.

So based upon those few examples, you extrapolate that the entire nation and Canada are using the same criteria?

I know that testing has gone through an evolution, adjustments to the thoroughly insufficient testing capabilities, regardless of what we've been told for over a month, but still I've heard other stories about people with dry cough, high fever and shortness of breath being tested.

 

[Dr_SLO]

And yet every single action taken regarding covid-19 including the shelter in place is based on tests with identical statistical errors. Singling them out for this is pretty disingenuous when everyone from the states to canada, to the UK has only been testing people with severe respiratory symptoms, which last I checked only occur in about 15% of cases. So from that perspective, their testing is at least consistent with every other test being done.

Yes, the testing performed by that one clinic is likely based on those with symptoms. However, an 8% positive rate out of those tested cannot be extrapolated to an entire population. It's 8% of those with symptoms. If they went into the population the incidence of a SARS-CoV-2 positive test will be substantially lower not higher than 8%. Their reasoning is flawed and has been called out by the wider medical and scientific community.

If they are comparing the fatality rate to flu (0.1%) then currently in NYC ~17.5M people will have been infected in a population of 8.5M. The maths doesn't work.

 

[Dr_SLO]

I was told twice by call nurses in contra costa county (Contra Costa Regional Medical Center and John Muir respectively) that i was ONLY allowed to get a test if I had "Severe respiratory symptoms." Same verbiage both times so their responses were rehearsed. And I've heard the same thing throughout the state. I've heard it on BBC where anchormen were blasting the NHS. Etc.
Tried to find the video but here's the criteria for the NHS: https://www.itv.com/news/2020-03-25...-covid19-princecharles-charles-camilla-royal/

The criteria for testing has evolved in recent weeks

 

[Bumpits]

Yes, the testing performed by that one clinic is likely based on those with symptoms. However, an 8% positive rate out of those tested cannot be extrapolated to an entire population. It's 8% of those with symptoms. If they went into the population the incidence of a SARS-CoV-2 positive test will be substantially lower not higher than 8%. Their reasoning is flawed and has been called out by the wider medical and scientific community.

If they are comparing the fatality rate to flu (0.1%) then currently in NYC ~17.5M people will have been infected in a population of 8.5M. The maths doesn't work.

ALL testing done is based on those with symptoms. Not just that one clinic. Testing has been so flawed up to this point that the recent study on antibodies in Santa Clara and Los Angeles shows the actual infection rate i 50-80 times higher than the previous testing suggested. The more testing is done, the more positive cases are found and the severity of covid-19 continues to drop.

The doctors don't extrapolate their test of 5k in their clinics to "The general population" of any further than Kent County. I dont know where this narrative came from that these doctors are telling everyone including NY to open up. That isnt the case.

 

[Bumpits]

The criteria for testing has evolved in recent weeks

Yes, partly because the rate of testing that's occurring has been plummeting. And also partly because they realize the tests that they currently have are only from symptomatic patients.

 

[Climber]

ALL testing done is based on those with symptoms. Not just that one clinic. Testing has been so flawed up to this point that the recent study on antibodies in Santa Clara and Los Angeles shows the actual infection rate i 50-80 times higher than the previous testing suggested. The more testing is done, the more positive cases are found and the severity of covid-19 continues to drop.

The doctors don't extrapolate their test of 5k in their clinics to "The general population" of any further than Kent County. I dont know where this narrative came from that these doctors are telling everyone including NY to open up. That isnt the case.

That was a preprint of a paper that was thrown together in a week or less.

I'm curious, what well of professional experience are you drawing from to be discounting the knowledge of DR SLO?

 

[Dr_SLO]

ALL testing done is based on those with symptoms. Not just that one clinic. Testing has been so flawed up to this point that the recent study on antibodies in Santa Clara and Los Angeles shows the actual infection rate i 50-80 times higher than the previous testing suggested. The more testing is done, the more positive cases are found and the severity of covid-19 continues to drop.

The doctors don't extrapolate their test of 5k in their clinics to "The general population" of any further than Kent County. I dont know where this narrative came from that these doctors are telling everyone including NY to open up. That isnt the case.

Not to pour too much fuel on the fire but the serology studies are also problematic and have also bee discussed widely in the scientific community. They're weak and underpowered and are based on flawed assumptions and poor modelling.

My NYC calculation was an example of the failed maths not that the doctors are extrapolating their recommendations to NYC. Case fatality is greater than flu.