RRW - The Rookie papers...what a disaster!

[420]

Sorry Zoran, but Tyler Odom went faster than you also and Benny in Practice Sat. All on 125s. Granted you are an old fart, though....

All is well in the world, though. The bottom, bottom line is that Racing is Racing, whether your on a 2-Stroke or 4-Stroke your still racing. I believe that these kids will learn more, spend less and do better overall by starting with a 125 and move to a 250 and then to a 600 if the single track USA is their future. Or if the exposure and skill is there perhaps MotoGP is the path.
You and Alex think that 600s - 1000s are the end all be all, so be it. Maybe when Hayden learns to ride his MotoGP bike like a 250 we can have another US Champion.... just kidding, man... Pedrosa isn't doing that hot either for a 2-Stroke guy...
Things are different at the top level and the path to get there is often convoluted and way too biased towards raw talent to accurately point a finger at the root cause of success.

And honestly, I'd be happy to see people start on an SV and cruise around, learning corner speed and going fast with skill that doesn't involve just straightening out a bike and twisting HARD.

 

[TWF]

that is because I was not there

 

[Trackho]

To Jay, Jake, Patrick and maybe the lurkers that won't chime in publicly... I hope you guys realize it's not ME driving the market from 4-strokes to 2-strokes (I'm a nobody in the grand scheme of things). I believe Honda is discontinuing production of the CR250. It is DEAD.

Yes we all think that YOU ARE THAT powerful---and that you just want to sell more tires--everything keeps coming around to you selling tires 8x/year:laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing

On the serious side, I have spent a fair amount of time hanging with Cameron(14 yrs old)--hes a funny/great kid--so me hopes that his 125 racing does move him to bigger/better things--then on the other hand--Garret Willis, 16yrs old, (team NFS) went straight from supremoto to a 600RR last August and is doing 1:43s at INfineon after 4 trackdays there...it will be interesting to say the least to watch this play out.

 

[BohnJerntsen]

Garret Willis, 16yrs old, (team NFS) went straight from supremoto to a 600RR last August and is doing 1:34s at INfineon after 4 trackdays there...

1:34s @ Infineon :wow That is :07 faster than Tigert on Sunday

Do you mean 1:43s?

 

[Trackho]

1:34s @ Infineon :wow That is :07 faster than Tigert on Sunday

Do you mean 1:43s?

1:43s--my bad

 

[420]

Check this out, definitely proves the the USGPRU is useless:

http://www.roadracerx.com/article.php?article_id=363

 

[TWF]

420,which american went straight from usgpru to europe and made name for himself,raced in 125/250 than motogp?
ps.I know few that raced 4 smoke and won nationals here that race or used to race motogp.

 

[afmotorsports]

420, you are friggin HIGH... :laughing :laughing (get it? 420? high?? I crack myself up sometimes... )

Stevie Bonsey went straight from flattrack to racing a REAL MotoGP 125 KTM, not the "mystery meat" Rookie's Cup. WTF does that mean?? Is local flattrack better than USGPRU?? Should all the kids racing 125s sell their bikes and go flattracking?? Bringing up ONE example doesn't mean squat. With kids at that age, their "connections" and the fact that they're competent on ANY type of motorcycle gets them attention. A speedway bike would get them attention. A 12 year old riding a 125 fast also gets attention, but I don't believe the fact that they're riding it in USGPRU gets them any additional attention. In fact, I'm more impressed with a kid that goes toe-to-toe with 2-stroke veterans (a KNOW quantity) than a bunch of other kids in USGPRU (an UNKNOWN quantity).

All we're saying is that a 2-stroke may be a stepping stone for young kids. Some of you 2-stroke fanatics just love to play "six degrees of separation" between all the champions and 2-strokes! :laughing :laughing Like I said, let them race and practice on 2-stroke pocketbikes, YSR50s and even 125s until they're big enough to race 600s (or get a one in a billion shot at a KTM MotoGP ride like Bonsey), but the USGPRU is STILL a waste of time and money for young kids and their families.

I still haven't seen even ONE of you come out and say that XYZ young rider should sell his 600 and jump on a 125 to go race with USGPRU. Well??? Why is that???

 

[TWF]

420,you know this kid?
he rode my personal bike(which was set up for me,not him)for first time on 4 smoke.he was turning competitive lap times and finished up front(I think 3rd).
if this was my kid he would be doing few weekends on sv and straight on 600.
unfortunately I think he is not racing any more.

 

[420]

Hahahahahahaha ... good stuff Alex ...

I actually think a couple riders made big mistakes going "up" to lazy 600s because of the pressure in the US that 600s and 1000s are the way to go. Neither here nor there at this stage though.

The point, if there is one, is that "I" believe that a families money is better spent going the route of the PJs of the world than dropping a bunch of loot on a 600 that teachs you very little. I also think flattracking, SM and such are a ton better than 600s as far as advancing the learning curve goes. Bang for the buck USGPRU kills racing a 600 in AFM or CCS or WERA for your average 15yr old trying to get fast and make a name for himself.

But, as I said before, it is very hard to pinpoint a background, outside of Europe, that is more dominate because of the ever fluctuating thing known as raw talent and resources. That said I also think that things are a changing due to the different outlets that are available to our young riders in the US nowdays (SM, USGPRU, flattrack, etc...). Though the esteemed Zoran is correct that there are few US representatives in the world now with 2-smoke backgrounds, we hope that will change within the next few years...

 

[420]

Whos the fugly guy in the hat???

 

[TWF]

Whos the fugly guy in the hat???

the one that rides that bike and run circles around your sawing machine :laughing

 

[TWF]

Hahahahahahaha ... good stuff Alex ...

I actually think a couple riders made big mistakes going "up" to lazy 600s because of the pressure in the US that 600s and 1000s are the way to go. Neither here nor there at this stage though.

why was that?
they did not have what it takes?

 

[420]

the one that rides that bike and run circles around your sawing machine :laughing

Jeez ... now you've entered dreamland. When was the last time you ran circles around me... Best go check the lap charts sonny boy... :laughing

 

[TWF]

maybe you will recognize kid from this picture :teeth

 

[afmotorsports]

Bang for the buck USGPRU kills racing a 600 in AFM or CCS or WERA for your average 15yr old trying to get fast and make a name for himself.

(in a Larry the Cable Guy tone): Now that right there is crazy talk!! :laughing

Do you have ANY idea how much it costs the family of a young racer to even ATTEND a Mid-Ohio race??? For the money that family spends on taking time off work, fuel, motels, etc. to do ONE race with the USGPRU they can probably do SEVERAL races with their LOCAL club and still have money left over. And with their local club, they often compete against AMA regulars. Bobby Fong beating Chris Siglin or Ken Hill or Jeff Tigert raises a lot of eyebrows. That's because those guys are KNOW quantities, everybody knows they're FAST! A relatively unknown 14 year old beating another relatively unknown 14 year old just doesn't tell you very much. Are they both really great or do they both just suck and one of them just happens to suck a little less??

Forget the 600s for a moment. Tell the local kid with a 125 to come out and race AFM for a fraction of the cost of a USGPRU weekend. When that kid spanks Carlos or Peter or some of the other really fast 125 riders, he WILL get attention and have a bunch of money left over to do trackdays and/or get a better bike. Pretending that you just have to go fast on a 125 in a USGPRU race and then you'll get picked up by MotoGP is friggin nuts! There are exponentially more pro rides on 600s than there are MotoGP 125 rides, even considering the Rookies Cup.

 

[TWF]

old farts riding 2 strokes have wrong attitude
it is either 2 stroke or nothing.unfortunately that gets you nowhere.even those that have talent(lets say Cameron as fastest of you)have slim chance to make it.you need talent,shit load of money backing you and connections.only 2 of them will not cut it.and than you have whole european industry against you.

 

[420]

Actually with Cam, only 1 of your factors did cut it, though that one factor led to alot of connections.

Now this is getting or has already been out of control.

Why do you think I have a 600 sitting in my garage now??? Cuz I am one of those AFM fast 125 guys and Cam/PJ/Kyle/Herrin/Carter came and showed me that no matter how much I pushed the machine to the limits, I could only go so fast with my size and weight. Now when Carlos, Tyler, Jon and Mike were running AFM life was fun for me cuz I could run with them competitively. Cam on a 120 degree day at BW went a second faster than any of us frontrunning AFMers on a stocker.

My contention is not that the young guns career path is only 2-Strokes, cuz I know only the cream-de-la-creme are gonna make it through the Rookie/Euro process to the Worlds. My contention is that a family can run their youngster on the West coast USGPRU series for alot less than a season of AFM would cost on a 600. Plus get the ability to showcase your talent in front of AMA crowds at Miller and Road Atlanta if you can afford it. And that overall this process will make them faster 4-Stroke riders if that is the path they choose.

 

[Holeshot]

Did anyone take business 101 in the 2-stroke camp?

The problem with kids running 125's in the US, aside from an excellent learning platform, is without the transition to 600's, they haven't a chance at actually moving up any sort of ladder within the US. There is no ladder aside 600's ---> 1000's in the US. There is no money for 125 sponsorship within the US, and thus, it's a short road to failure. This is why the flat trackers and super moto guys have done so well in the US: Support for those series and riders.

When a rider is on TV, be it speed or Fox, they're creating future opportunities. The 125/ 250 argument for kids growing up racing bikes is excellent. There's so much to learn on those machines. The argument to NOT get them off those bikes as soon as they're able to is falacious. The kids need to keep progressing and pushing their skillsets. Winning 125 races over and over in the US doesn't do that.

 

[dgrace]

My contention is that a family can run their youngster on the West coast USGPRU series for alot less than a season of AFM would cost on a 600.

I call bullshit - please show us this math and let us know your assumptions. (i.e. does the family live in Vegas or S.F.?) Presumably you're going to argue that 600s eat tires, but conversely, they don't eat cranks and topends, and run fine on pump gas.

dave