Prostitution: Decriminalize, Legalize, or leave it as is?

[Cyclesuzy]

Even most independent contractors as well as other self-employed professionals have some regulations they must abide by. To be a professional massage therapist in Sacramento, I had to obtain a business license in the City of Sacramento as well as carry E&O insurance.

If you do business legally in California, you likely fall under some regulation. We’re a big state like that.

 

[Holeshot]

Competition. As jobs became more difficult to find the profession filled up with people willing to do anything in order to eat.

For example, a streetwalker I knew made a living wage because she chose to take beatings or take on multiple clients at a time. Not what she preferred, but others were doing it (or being made to do it) so she had to in order to stay competitive. On the high end women started having to compete with exotic multilingual women being smuggled into the U.S.

I also see far fewer college girls than I used to. Haven't had to vet or safecall in years. The ones J helped have all graduated so I don't know the story there.

It would seem to me that the legality would encourage more reporting of the abusive Johns and street violence, not to mention, getting the profession off of the street. That's where things START and then, improve from there. We're not going to make it a perfect first attempt at legalization.

 

[HappyHighwayman]

Marijuana is legal in several states, I have no doubt as our society modernizes and gets less religious other "vices" will become regulated.

 

[MysterYvil]

Even most independent contractors as well as other self-employed professionals have some regulations they must abide by. To be a professional massage therapist in Sacramento, I had to obtain a business license in the City of Sacramento as well as carry E&O insurance.

If you do business legally in California, you likely fall under some regulation. We’re a big state like that.

I can see needing a business license (part of being an independent contractor, just a normal tax on all those in that game regardless of profession) but why in the world a massage therapist would be required to carry professional liability insurance boggles me. That seems to be just another sop to the insurance industry.

 

[HappyHighwayman]

I think society's sex workers are also marginalized and treated as criminals instead of victims when they do come forward.

 

[Cyclesuzy]

I can see needing a business license (part of being an independent contractor, just a normal tax on all those in that game regardless of profession) but why in the world a massage therapist would be required to carry professional liability insurance boggles me. That seems to be just another sop to the insurance industry.

Because people regularly sue their massage therapists. As a former one, I can’t imagine causing damage but my firm’s represented a number of CMTs sued by one of their clients.

 

[Holeshot]

Marijuana is legal in several states, I have no doubt as our society modernizes and gets less religious other "vices" will become regulated.

Nah. We're more interested in drugs and elicit uses over working girls safety and sex slavery problems. Give us our drugs.

What a sad state of the country...

 

[MysterYvil]

It would seem to me that the legality would encourage more reporting of the abusive Johns and street violence, not to mention, getting the profession off of the street. That's where things START and then, improve from there. We're not going to make it a perfect first attempt at legalization.

Brothel workers in Nevada are required to work for state-approved pimps. Those businesses discourage complaints to law enforcement; doing so imperils the victim's employability.

Around here street girls can graduate to being motel girls. Still no legal recourse or being able to deselect clients.

Until sex workers can report crimes against them as the rest of us can the profession will remain cloaked in the shadows.

 

[MysterYvil]

Because people regularly sue their massage therapists. As a former one, I can’t imagine causing damage but my firm’s represented a number of CMTs sued by one of their clients.

Aah, so lawyers and insurance companies. Got it.

 

[Ogier le Danois]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Germany

Legal in Germany, and nobody thinks of them as a country with too many social problems compared to many.

I read this years ago when the same topic was being discussed. I believe on BARF.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...s-a-prostitute-we-can-stop-your-benefits.html

Then when googling it now, I find this

https://www.snopes.com/media/notnews/brothel.asp

Not the best Snopes article. According to both the Telegraph and Snopes the law is written in such a way that women could lose benefits after 12 months if they don’t accept a job offer in the sex industry or any industry. The majority of links say it isn’t true because there are no real examples. I can’t find any unique sources outside telegraph and snopes.

I don’t know how unemployment works in the US in terms of job seeking and taking requirements. Or how self employed are treated. I’ve only been unemployed by choice.

It would seem to me that the legality would encourage more reporting of the abusive Johns and street violence, not to mention, getting the profession off of the street. That's where things START and then, improve from there. We're not going to make it a perfect first attempt at legalization.

Unfortunately for those tasked with policy and those who benefit or lose with any change, There are dozens of legitimate studies and data sets that provide starkly different conclusions.

I believe you will see a greater likelihood of same or higher levels of violence because Americans are more violent on an individual level than most European countries.

I believe we are likely to see a rise in sex trafficking. The US, in practice, has some of the most permissible rules for immigrants. One of the reasons we have both the largest immigrant population in the world and the highest % of immigrants making up the population - by 4x that of the 2nd place country. J1 visas could be used at a much greater rate to traffic than now. All of studies I’ve seen indicate trafficking goes up in prosperous countries after legalization.

Our economic and political systems are mostly exploitation based. Not a good combination for reforming the sex trade.

The concept of voluntary work in most parts of the sex industry is out of my ability to understand. Please be clear, I’m not criticizing, just acknowledging I don’t understand.

 

[cencalballer]

I think society's sex workers are also marginalized and treated as criminals instead of victims when they do come forward.

This definitely happens. In my time doing legal internships this seemed to be the case almost every-time I had a client that needed help who was a sex worker.

 

[Eldritch]

I can see needing a business license (part of being an independent contractor, just a normal tax on all those in that game regardless of profession) but why in the world a massage therapist would be required to carry professional liability insurance boggles me. That seems to be just another sop to the insurance industry.

Are you nuts? People who professionally pull and push other peoples bodies for a living? That is a soft tissue/joint injury lawsuit WAITING to happen.

 

[MysterYvil]

This definitely happens. In my time doing legal internships this seemed to be the case almost every-time I had a client that needed help who was a sex worker.

I worked at Planned Parenthood for 22 years, 12 of them on a "racetrack" between their workplaces our city's drug center. I met a LOT of sex workers. Your experience mirrors mine. They are exploited, they are largely ignored, and usually they are afraid to come forward.

Because I was well regarded by the homeless, the street folks, and the gangsters many workers were confortable in telling me their stories. It's a wild world.

 

[bruceflinch]

I think we should move in that general direction, but start small and learn what does/doesn't work as we go. Seems like the obvious starting point would be handjobs and bean rubbing at massage parlors. Though I think it should be legalized and regulated over just being decriminalized. Make 'em wear gloves and dispose of body fluids the same as a hospital would.

Welcome to the Tug & Rub Massage Parlor, where the "Yanken Frankin & Beans" is only $29.95

 

[bruceflinch]

Out of curiosity, who here has actually known a sex worker?

Mrs. pointed out that my POV may be skewed because I have met so many of so many carieties. (For some reason IRL I have many strangers who are willing to confide in me so I hear all manner of life stories.)

I've known a bunch professionally arty
I blame the Navy for sending me to the P.I. and getting me addicted... :x

Good idea.

Honestly there are times I'd have happily paid for sexual gratification, but I never have because of societal pressure, shame, fear of disease and lack of resources.

Then you just wasn't horny enough! :afm199

I would agree to either decriminalization or Legalization.

Nobody has mentioned that Mexico has legalized prostitution.
You can go to: Gentleman Clubs or night clubs, find an Independent on CL or Tinder. Just got back from Cabo arty
I did not see any streetwalkers. A lot of Independents hang out in the bigger night clubs.
I preferred the Tinder model myself. The Ladies I met where all very nice sweet women.

 

[Junkie]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Germany

Legal in Germany, and nobody thinks of them as a country with too many social problems compared to many.

I'd disagree regarding the lack of social problems, especially in the past few years.

I can see needing a business license (part of being an independent contractor, just a normal tax on all those in that game regardless of profession) but why in the world a massage therapist would be required to carry professional liability insurance boggles me. That seems to be just another sop to the insurance industry.

What occupation doesn't need professional liability insurance? And this is especially true when you're working with someone's body.

 

[MysterYvil]

What occupation doesn't need professional liability insurance? And this is especially true when you're working with someone's body.

Most retail jobs. State-certified ear piercer. Armed security. Metal fabricator. Development Assistant. Database Manager. Dunkin' Donuts cooks and servers. Paraoptometric Technician. Performers at Exotic Erotic Ball, kink.com, rope::burn, et cetera.

All jobs Mrs. and I have held. None required insurance, even in nanny-state-Kali, where many are victims of their own lack of due diligence.

 

[HappyHighwayman]

I'd disagree regarding the lack of social problems, especially in the past few years..

Cool what social problems? Can you share? Increased sex trafficking?

 

[Eldritch]

Most retail jobs. State-certified ear piercer. Armed security. Metal fabricator. Development Assistant. Database Manager. Dunkin' Donuts cooks and servers. Paraoptometric Technician. Performers at Exotic Erotic Ball, kink.com, rope::burn, et cetera.

All jobs Mrs. and I have held. None required insurance, even in nanny-state-Kali, where many are victims of their own lack of due diligence.

Pretty much every single job you listed, that labor is covered by the liability insurance of the business operator, and it is required in order to do business. If the sex workers in question were to work for a cathouse or something, then the cathouse could potentially be the one to hold the insurance. In the case of a massage therapist, the massage parlor would hold the insurance typically.

You cannot simply do a straight cash business in the United States anymore. Any legitimate business not operating in Black or Grey markets requires some kind of business license and some type of liability insurance. The world of, "I did the thing, I got the money, I paid the taxes," simply does not exist anymore.

 

[MysterYvil]

I have only seen/heard about two scenarios for sex trafficking problems:

1) No legal recourse because sex work is illegal;

2) The worker is brought here/came here illegally and fears deportation.

I am certain there are more.

Remove legal repercussions for the workers, remove the stigma, solve the problem.