VaderSS
Skill Seeker
Years certainly help, but I know people who are way older than me who still have not learned...
Luck, don't buy into it.
- Thread starter VaderSS
- Start date
Years certainly help, but I know people who are way older than me who still have not learned...
VaderSS
Skill Seeker
Oh, and both my mentor and Lee Parks, the writer of the book and main instructor for the Total Control ARCs, feel that trail-braking is one of the most important skills a rider can learn, because it gives you the ability to radically change your line in a curve. They both say that individuals have contacted them to let them know that it saved them.
I now feel that the $650 cost of the TCARCs(both together) was more than worth it for giving me this one skill.
I now feel that the $650 cost of the TCARCs(both together) was more than worth it for giving me this one skill.
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DataDan
Mama says he's bona fide
Some attitudes commonly held by motorcyclists contribute to giving up too early:
- Fatalism. "If it's your time, there's nothing you can do about it."
- Crashes are random events.
- Crashes usually can't be prevented.
That's not to say that all crashes are, in fact, preventable. They aren't. But you'll never know if you give up.
This is just semantics, but anticipation can mean recognizing a developing situation and projecting the outcome. We all do that all the time to great benefit. If you see a car ahead merging carelessly, you can anticipate that a driver forced to take evasive action will end up in your lane. He may or may not, but by acting as if he will, you ensure your own safety.
I would rather wear protective gear but ride as if I were in a t-shirt and flip-flops. If I lowside in a turn, I might just slide harmlessly across the pavement to a soft dirt shoulder and be protected from injury by my gear. But then again, I might hit an oncoming vehicle, and gear provides no significant protection in that kind of impact. I will not let my protective gear influence my perception of injury risk in the event of a crash.
Crashing should always be regarded as unacceptable because injuries are to a great extent a matter of luck.
Desmodromic
Captain Slow
good post mate!
ST Guy
Well-known member
Just coasting through a turn is OK in some situations, but certainly, knowing how to brake going into a turn and really, at any point in a turn, is an extremely valuable skill that many never learn. Same with accellerating in a turn. Those who can't change their line, slow, or speed up in a turn are lacking a basic skill to operating and surviving on a motorcycle.
Dug
I said good day, sir!
Luck = Random Chance is all and people who depend on "Guardian Angels" are also just as bad.
IMHO you make your own "Luck" via you actions and and decide your own future via your decisions. No one is looking over your shoulder except for the bugs who didn't smack into your helmet's visor.
IMHO you make your own "Luck" via you actions and and decide your own future via your decisions. No one is looking over your shoulder except for the bugs who didn't smack into your helmet's visor.
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vstrom_rider
SF Rider
Here's my list that keeps me lucky.
(1) Never ride after drinking, even a small amount of alcohol
(2) Leave the ego at home. Don't race cars or other riders.
(3) Never daydream while riding. I've done it in the car, but make a point to stay focused on the bike.
(4) Ride defensively. Ie do not protect lane position against an aggressive driver. Be Evasive rather than aggressive.
(5) Don't flip the bird to a driver. To use an analogy : You're bringing a knife to gun fight.
(1) Never ride after drinking, even a small amount of alcohol
(2) Leave the ego at home. Don't race cars or other riders.
(3) Never daydream while riding. I've done it in the car, but make a point to stay focused on the bike.
(4) Ride defensively. Ie do not protect lane position against an aggressive driver. Be Evasive rather than aggressive.
(5) Don't flip the bird to a driver. To use an analogy : You're bringing a knife to gun fight.
GAJ
Well-known member
:thumbup
I've been on BARF long enough to know that there is a certain percentage that view 1, 2, 3 & 5 as a sign of their mad skills and individuality...badges of honor if you will.
The honor of being a member of the Future Hood Ornaments of America, but an honor nonetheless.
MotardJunkie
Banned
My only point in posting garyj article is that you will crash unless you just put along on the freeway and only on sunday when its noon and ninety degrees.
Some of use ride the track
some of us ride in the dirt
some of us ride through small lakes
some of us ride up muddy hills
some of us ride in pouring rain in the mountains on roads like alpine and china grade.
yes..... some of us crash.... the rest.... arent trying to have fun hard enough.
every time you hop on 680 some asshat can run up behind you doing 120 and hit your car and spin you out and kill you.
planes fall out of the sky....
shit happens.
as long as you ride careful on the street and ride with full gear ie back protectors....full leathers ...high end boots and gloves.....its all you can do.
trail braking on the street is not necessary. if someone told you to do that they should have mentioned you were speeding.... trail braking? take it to the track.
oh wait...that would involve risk....
Some of use ride the track
some of us ride in the dirt
some of us ride through small lakes
some of us ride up muddy hills
some of us ride in pouring rain in the mountains on roads like alpine and china grade.
yes..... some of us crash.... the rest.... arent trying to have fun hard enough.
every time you hop on 680 some asshat can run up behind you doing 120 and hit your car and spin you out and kill you.
planes fall out of the sky....
shit happens.
as long as you ride careful on the street and ride with full gear ie back protectors....full leathers ...high end boots and gloves.....its all you can do.
trail braking on the street is not necessary. if someone told you to do that they should have mentioned you were speeding.... trail braking? take it to the track.
oh wait...that would involve risk....
DataDan
Mama says he's bona fide
A problem I have with Gary J's article is that he fails to distinguish between dirt, track, and street crashes.
If you ride in the dirt, you're going to crash, but you're probably not going to get hurt very bad. After all, it's dirt.
If you race, you're going to crash. It's the inevitable result of discovering your limits while competing. You'll probably get hurt more than you would crashing in dirt, but a great benefit of the racetrack is that it's designed to be crash-friendly. No guardrails, no redwoods, no SUVs.
The street is a whole 'nother deal. It's a very dangerous place to crash, and a rider needs to take it seriously.
Everyone knows that Gary is a fast and skilled rider. But he seems to be rationalizing street crashes by suggesting they're inevitable unless you ride only in perfect conditions, you're some sort of automaton who always resists the temptation to have fun, and you ride only a few miles a year and only on the freeways. I disagree.
Street crashes are preventable. But only if you begin with the attitude that they are and put your mind to the task of discovering how they can be prevented rather than the task of rationalizing them.
mike23w
Giggity
I think I'll try riding more with this attitude; leathers don't help when hitting something solid at speed.
masameet
Rawr!
So what's the point of this thread?
Learn to ride so you won't crash? Practice your skills and learn new ones?
Crashes happen. Sometimes it is the rider who is at fault. Sometimes it's another motorist or a critter or same crap in the road. Sometimes the bike fails. And sometimes lightning strikes.
That's life. Deal with it. And strive to be positive when the going gets tough. Just don't give these platitudinous sermons on not thinking luck had anything to do with me saving my butt on a ride just because you took some street skills class and think preaching to the choir is the way to go.
Learn to ride so you won't crash? Practice your skills and learn new ones?
Crashes happen. Sometimes it is the rider who is at fault. Sometimes it's another motorist or a critter or same crap in the road. Sometimes the bike fails. And sometimes lightning strikes.
That's life. Deal with it. And strive to be positive when the going gets tough. Just don't give these platitudinous sermons on not thinking luck had anything to do with me saving my butt on a ride just because you took some street skills class and think preaching to the choir is the way to go.
Blacknblue
Well-known member
I think the point is learning to take as much responsibility for those variables that are
within our control to minimize our risk. The precise manner in which we approach this
task is individualistic and subject to much debate. This debate about "destiny," "fate,"
and "luck" itself is a long-standing one which I happen to find interesting. I welcome
threads that get me thinking about safety, especially when I find disparate views.
within our control to minimize our risk. The precise manner in which we approach this
task is individualistic and subject to much debate. This debate about "destiny," "fate,"
and "luck" itself is a long-standing one which I happen to find interesting. I welcome
threads that get me thinking about safety, especially when I find disparate views.
VaderSS
Skill Seeker
Masameet,
I took skills classes, and will continue to do so, because it fits in with my attitude that bad luck is a great excuse for failures of all kinds in life. I decided to do whatever it took to be sucessful. I know that luck plays a part in our lives, but I have learned that you can stack the deck greatly in your favor if you take responsibility for everything that happens in your life and educate yourself so that you can master whatever it is you are doing.
I picked up this attitude in 1996. When I did, my life began to slowly change for the better. In 1996, I was a burned-out waiter and bartender who blamed bad luck for having a crappy life. I am now an engineer living a dream and very thankful for it. I have had failures along the way. Instead of blaming bad luck, I look at how I could do better. When I succeed, instead of giving credit to good luck, I look at what I did well, and see if I can do even better.
This is not something new to me as you imply. I am simply sharing. If it helps one person, then I'll be happy with my effort. If I fail to help one person, well, I gave it a shot, which is better than not trying.
I took skills classes, and will continue to do so, because it fits in with my attitude that bad luck is a great excuse for failures of all kinds in life. I decided to do whatever it took to be sucessful. I know that luck plays a part in our lives, but I have learned that you can stack the deck greatly in your favor if you take responsibility for everything that happens in your life and educate yourself so that you can master whatever it is you are doing.
I picked up this attitude in 1996. When I did, my life began to slowly change for the better. In 1996, I was a burned-out waiter and bartender who blamed bad luck for having a crappy life. I am now an engineer living a dream and very thankful for it. I have had failures along the way. Instead of blaming bad luck, I look at how I could do better. When I succeed, instead of giving credit to good luck, I look at what I did well, and see if I can do even better.
This is not something new to me as you imply. I am simply sharing. If it helps one person, then I'll be happy with my effort. If I fail to help one person, well, I gave it a shot, which is better than not trying.
DigDoug
Well-known member
^^So what's the point of YOUR post? If you have nothing to add or don't find it interesting, DON'T READ IT or READ SOMETHING ELSE.
Vadar and all others who actually had something constructive to say, thank you for putting it up here, whether its a simple reminder for stuff we already know or not.
mike23w
Giggity
I learned something from DataDan in this thread, maybe you didn't learn anything.
To each their own.
To each their own.
DataDan
Mama says he's bona fide
The point of the thread is that if you have the attitude that "crashes happen", you're more likely to crash than if you accept 100% responsibility for your fate and actively look for ways not to crash.
Some crashes are the fault of the rider. They can be prevented with good attitude, judgment, and skill.
Some crashes are the fault of another motorist. But regardless of legal fault, most can still be prevented by the rider.
Some crashes are due to random shit. Again, regardless of the randomness, most can be prevented by the rider.
That leaves a small percentage of crashes that truly are unavoidable. Safety guru Larry Grodsky's death in a collision with a deer is one of them. Minnesota rider Randy Scott's fatal crash with ex-Congresscritter Bill Janklow is another. But you can't know a crash is one of those unpreventable bad-luck events until after you've tried everything possible to prevent it.
If you read about a crash and put it into the "shit happens" category, or if you experience a close call and attribute your survival to mere luck, when a similar incident happens without luck on your side, you'll become its victim. OTOH, if you see it as a learning opportunity, analyze it, and devise countermeasures, you probably will avoid a crash in the same situation. As VaderSS wrote:
You might think of something that you "think" is impossible to prepare for, but that is when you should seek outside help. You may currently not have a tool to allow you to deal with something you think of, but the tool may exist and others can share it with you. Accept that, sometimes, it may require training to get the new tool and the skill to use it. Read some books. Discuss.