I think I'm about to die
- Thread starter canyonrat
- Start date
canyonrat
Veteran Knee Dragger
Why is this topic "timely"...?
We are experiencing summer/spring like conditions during the middle of winter. Winter provides us gravel, red lava rock for frost, and leaf and branch debris, all of which are not present in summer and fall. But we (me included) find our selves riding like it is summer.
So let's add that into the equation.
And I did not give all details in the OP because I thought it too lengthy and would discourage responses.
We are experiencing summer/spring like conditions during the middle of winter. Winter provides us gravel, red lava rock for frost, and leaf and branch debris, all of which are not present in summer and fall. But we (me included) find our selves riding like it is summer.
So let's add that into the equation.
And I did not give all details in the OP because I thought it too lengthy and would discourage responses.
canyonrat
Veteran Knee Dragger
and WWWobble, your thoughts are also very helpful. Having a forethought, or goal, or aim, to not cross the double yellow, may in fact be a very useful "affirmation" that leads one, subconsciously, to not take actions that will lead to a double yellow crossing.
I have personally seen this type of consciousness work personally on me and on dear and close friends (in areas other than double yellow) but still in VERY POWERFUL situations.
I'd classify WWWobble's idea as Jedi rider ideas. "Oh snap" I've stated on BARF for years that MANY of you "expert" riders exhibit the Jedi energy but just don't know it.
I have personally seen this type of consciousness work personally on me and on dear and close friends (in areas other than double yellow) but still in VERY POWERFUL situations.
I'd classify WWWobble's idea as Jedi rider ideas. "Oh snap" I've stated on BARF for years that MANY of you "expert" riders exhibit the Jedi energy but just don't know it.
canyonrat
Veteran Knee Dragger
ilikefood, you also make good points. I bow and agree that I do ride "crazy" by some riders standards. Ok, screw it, I ride crazy PERIOD. I ride fast for fun, reach 100+mph on every few short sections of back roads I have found, and they are few. For fun I drag knee because it "jacks" me up and also relaxes me but better said it settles something deeeep inside me. And on the rare occasion a rider is behind me, then I gain, "he's the frucking bad sassed man" points and kudos. So to ride like knee-daggers do you need there state of awareness which is calm (of mental thoughts, music, its practiced and trained, and have some "other" protection active around them.
DefyInertia
Original Saratogian
I'm mostly concerned about crossing the dby while sliding on my leathers, but this is interesting.
canyonrat
Veteran Knee Dragger
kuksul08, makes a few good points, "I can specifically remember the times because it's that freaky, and it's only luck or something greater that has me here still."
I'ts freaky because you have never experienced it, and you can feel the palpability of luck, or "something about you happening."
This gets back to dark knowledge, a rider needs to be experienced enough of those many close galls, not over react, and move omn.
I'ts freaky because you have never experienced it, and you can feel the palpability of luck, or "something about you happening."
This gets back to dark knowledge, a rider needs to be experienced enough of those many close galls, not over react, and move omn.
canyonrat
Veteran Knee Dragger
DefyInertia, we are theorizing how to use the bike if we cross the yellow. I have no thoughts on once you're down off the bike and crossing the yellow, except praying to god that the suit will remain intact, or using knowledge from skeletoning teams, perhaps knowledge from experert lugers.But one your off your bike the things get dicy
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kangaroo
Well-known member
I'll play and say it depends on how far over the yellow you are, how fast you are going, how leaned over you are and also how much engine braking your bike has. Having been behind people who blew double yellows, I've noticed that it was more a lack of a rider's confidence and skill than physical factors that made them go over the yellow. Once over the yellow then they keep making more errors in their recovery mostly locking up the front or panic and stay in the middle of the oncoming lane not knowing what to do until the curve straightens out.
Usually shooting for the opposite white line is deceptive because you will not have enough space to lower your speed in time which means you'll be off road pretty quick. I think that's a last bailout move if an oncoming impact is imminent. The best thinking I find is to get back over as fast as possible. Thinking about stopping and then come back over when safe sounds like a lot more exposure timewise vs slowing down then moving right back over once the bike is under control.
Usually shooting for the opposite white line is deceptive because you will not have enough space to lower your speed in time which means you'll be off road pretty quick. I think that's a last bailout move if an oncoming impact is imminent. The best thinking I find is to get back over as fast as possible. Thinking about stopping and then come back over when safe sounds like a lot more exposure timewise vs slowing down then moving right back over once the bike is under control.
DigDoug
Well-known member
Too many unknowns in this equation and far too much room for error. What's gonna be the instinct/reaction of the oncoming driver? More than likely to veer off to the side you're headed for in your theoretical situation. A driver coming the other way will not, probably 9/10 times, will not veer to the side of oncoming traffic in order to prevent a head on collision with another car that could be behind you. That person in the car is probably going to assume the rider is going to try and get back in the correct lane as soon as possible and try and give the rider space time and room to attempt that by veering towards the white line. Not a good idea in my opinion. Once you start practicing something like that, you start repeating it. I am always reminded of a lesson I learned way back. Practice does not make perfect, practice makes permanent.
You start building muscle memory practicing things like that. When that happens, you find yourself doing it unintentionally because you have conditioned yourself to go into corners all messed up. Then it's a total mind game and confidence drops and takes even longer to build back the good habits.
You start building muscle memory practicing things like that. When that happens, you find yourself doing it unintentionally because you have conditioned yourself to go into corners all messed up. Then it's a total mind game and confidence drops and takes even longer to build back the good habits.
Lunch Box
Useful idiot
I disagree with your assessment of the responses. What to do after you cross the double yellow is the same thing that you were doing before you crossed it: trying to get your bike through the corner safely.
What most of us are saying is that "blowing a corner" SHOULD mean that you come close to the double yellow or the fog line. Blowing a corner SHOULD NOT mean actually crossing the double yellow. If it does, then you are riding too fast for your skill set and/or the conditions. Public roads are full of unexpected obstacles and the smart riders leave a lot of speed in their back pocket because they know this.
I've blown two double yellows in my life. Both times I pulled over, beat myself up mentally, and cut my ride short. It is a big deal.
canyonrat
Veteran Knee Dragger
Good morning all. Great comments! Still seems the jury is in favor of not practicing this.
I will point out that "out right speed" is not always a factor. Two weeks ago I had a close call where I entered and went through a series quick tight turns, I was slowing and at or below the speed limit. There was debris in the road that I now had to start weaving around and that through my corner entry position/line for the next three corners resulting in a placement of my front tire on the yellow and then pulling back. The thing of it, was is it was a left!
I'll post tonight about practicing alternate cornering lines...there's more to be said.
bikeama, thank you, I'm glad you like reading my stuff. I'm still working on the biggy...the survival guide article I've been talking about for 2+ years.
I will point out that "out right speed" is not always a factor. Two weeks ago I had a close call where I entered and went through a series quick tight turns, I was slowing and at or below the speed limit. There was debris in the road that I now had to start weaving around and that through my corner entry position/line for the next three corners resulting in a placement of my front tire on the yellow and then pulling back. The thing of it, was is it was a left!
I'll post tonight about practicing alternate cornering lines...there's more to be said.
bikeama, thank you, I'm glad you like reading my stuff. I'm still working on the biggy...the survival guide article I've been talking about for 2+ years.
canyonrat
Veteran Knee Dragger
:thumbup
Oh yes it's a big deal, and it's worth discussion.
It's been my experience over the years that riders cross the double yellow because they are new to riding or new to the road. I don't know if I can remember a skilled knee dragger blowing a yellow...other then because them and their bike were sliding across it.
Lunch Box
Useful idiot
Being new to riding is a valid reason (though still not acceptable). Being new to the road, however, is horse shit. An experienced rider should be even more cautious on a road that he/she doesn't know well. In addition to the potential for debris in the road, not knowing whether the next corner is a decreasing radius / off-camber / etc. is a VERY good reason to enter slow and exit fast.
I consider myself to be a skilled knee dragger (though I don't drag knee on public streets, as a rule). I've been fortunate enough to only have one minor low side (on a left hander at low speed) during my 33 years of riding on the street. I attribute this to honing my skills on the track as a youth and riding well within those skill limits on the street most of the time. The older I get, the more conservatively I ride on the street. In addition to having enough experience to know my skill limitations, I consider luck to be the primary factor to my good record. I've been lucky. Plain and simple.
I consider myself to be a skilled knee dragger (though I don't drag knee on public streets, as a rule). I've been fortunate enough to only have one minor low side (on a left hander at low speed) during my 33 years of riding on the street. I attribute this to honing my skills on the track as a youth and riding well within those skill limits on the street most of the time. The older I get, the more conservatively I ride on the street. In addition to having enough experience to know my skill limitations, I consider luck to be the primary factor to my good record. I've been lucky. Plain and simple.
dtrides
Well-known member
Interesting stuff CR.
I have actually pondered it as a evasive action of on coming car in my lane. Would it be better to move out of the way of out of control car by diving to the left for the fog line vs take my chances they will recover or miraculously miss me if I brake hard etc.
That said , I do nearly all my riding on tighter two lane roads occupied with young (apparently)invinceble growers in their maxed out 4x4's . They drive the roads often at the brink of control. I don't care how 'careful' you ride if you have a extended 1 ton 4 door diesel sideways in your lane when you apex the corner.
Why would you not consider using the space he is not to save your bacon?
DT
I have actually pondered it as a evasive action of on coming car in my lane. Would it be better to move out of the way of out of control car by diving to the left for the fog line vs take my chances they will recover or miraculously miss me if I brake hard etc.
That said , I do nearly all my riding on tighter two lane roads occupied with young (apparently)invinceble growers in their maxed out 4x4's . They drive the roads often at the brink of control. I don't care how 'careful' you ride if you have a extended 1 ton 4 door diesel sideways in your lane when you apex the corner.
Why would you not consider using the space he is not to save your bacon?
DT
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WWWobble
This way...That way...
This is a really good point.
Thinking about what you would do if you blew the yellow, staying aware of the entire road environment, and maybe practicing how to move the bike into a different position RIGHT NOW when leaned over
.....is also building a valuable mental set and perhaps a skill set for when it's the OTHER guy who blows the yellow line toward you.
WWWobble
ScottRNelson
Mr. Dual Sport Rider
Why limit this to crossing a double yellow line?
My own goal when riding is to not cross to the left half of the road regardless of what lines are there or not there. A lot of the roads that I find interesting don't have any lines at all. I still work at staying on the right half even on those.
There have been several times when I've suddenly come upon some gravel in the wrong place on a right turn when I've had to choose between taking a chance on traction in the gravel or go a bit wide. When I go wide, it's after determining that there is no oncoming traffic to put me in additional danger. Then I try to figure out how I could have avoided such a riding error to reduce the chance of it happening again. I average once every few years for an error like that.
The last time I went into the left side of the road was when I got a flat front tire at speed and the bike wouldn't steer. I stopped as quickly as I could with the rear brake and concentrated on keeping the bike upright. If there had been an oncoming car I probably would have gone down to avoid it.
There really is no good reason to leave the right half of the road except when passing slower traffic or avoiding hazards on the road (after checking that the oncoming lane is clear).
Make it a habit to keep on the right half at all times and call it a riding error if you stray across the center of the road, regardless of whether there is a line or not.
My own goal when riding is to not cross to the left half of the road regardless of what lines are there or not there. A lot of the roads that I find interesting don't have any lines at all. I still work at staying on the right half even on those.
There have been several times when I've suddenly come upon some gravel in the wrong place on a right turn when I've had to choose between taking a chance on traction in the gravel or go a bit wide. When I go wide, it's after determining that there is no oncoming traffic to put me in additional danger. Then I try to figure out how I could have avoided such a riding error to reduce the chance of it happening again. I average once every few years for an error like that.
The last time I went into the left side of the road was when I got a flat front tire at speed and the bike wouldn't steer. I stopped as quickly as I could with the rear brake and concentrated on keeping the bike upright. If there had been an oncoming car I probably would have gone down to avoid it.
There really is no good reason to leave the right half of the road except when passing slower traffic or avoiding hazards on the road (after checking that the oncoming lane is clear).
Make it a habit to keep on the right half at all times and call it a riding error if you stray across the center of the road, regardless of whether there is a line or not.
The first observation I'd have is that you state that crossing the DY is something that happens from time to time. Do you run off the road in left-handers from time to time also? If not, what's different?
IMO, there isn't any unique skill involved in gaining control on the left side of the DY that you couldn't practice on the right side. It comes down to getting your speed under control in a corner and getting the bike turned more.