I think I'm about to die

[Honey Badger]

It's horses for courses. On the really narrow, tight little goat trails I like, even if you go all the way to the left shoulder, you won't see far enough through the blind right to avoid the tweaker in the F350 coming other way who just "knows" he's the only one on road. Hell, even in the case of my encounter with DIVINEZ, had I late apexed that right hander, I could not have gotten out of his way fast enough.

Yeah, lots of places I will run out towards the left and turn in late - because in those places it makes sense for all the reasons Andy cited. On tighter, narrower roads, I'll run tighter to the shoulder all the way through. It's not hard to stand a bike up if I need to.

I'm with flying hun on this one - it needs to be on a case by case, corner by corner, road by road case. The "start wide" thing is NOT always the best depending on how far you can actually see...there are corners I would much rather already be on the inside and just have to tighten from there rather than having an additional 6' or more of pavement to try to get across. Other corners I'll enter on the outside and move in as I can see through.

There are way to many factors to say "do it this way all the time." Understanding site lines, your abilities, your bike's abilities, and considering road type/surface/pace/etc all should be factors on what is the best line through a particular corner on that particular day.

I don't think that it's wise to tell anyone to "do it this way all the time." I'm guessing none of the experienced riders here take every corner exactly the same every time....

 

[tzrider]

I don't think that it's wise to tell anyone to "do it this way all the time."

That's absolutely true. It's helpful to have an approach that works most of the time so you don't have to over-think each corner, but when you come to a corner where that approach isn't right, don't use it.

 

[rodr]

It's horses for courses. On the really narrow, tight little goat trails I like, even if you go all the way to the left shoulder, you won't see far enough through the blind right to avoid the tweaker in the F350 coming other way who just "knows" he's the only one on road. Hell, even in the case of my encounter with DIVINEZ, had I late apexed that right hander, I could not have gotten out of his way fast enough.

Yeah, lots of places I will run out towards the left and turn in late - because in those places it makes sense for all the reasons Andy cited. On tighter, narrower roads, I'll run tighter to the shoulder all the way through. It's not hard to stand a bike up if I need to.

This rings true for me. Pretty much what I was going to say, but Kurt as usual says it better. :thumbup

The key question to ask yourself is, can I get pasted by an oncoming car if I take this line?

 

[kangaroo]

The interesting discussion should focus more on what to do when you enter a decreasing radius turn both right and left. If anybody watches rnickeymouse's vids on YouTube, you'll see the classic responses to what riders do and why thy crash. How does one learn to tighten the arc, scrub off speed, trail brake, engine brake, add more lean, etc etc.

 

[canyonrat]

You're not going to "cause an accident" at a trackday by trying different lines. At any given trackday you'll be amazed at how many different lines you see at one corner, especially in B or C group. Unless you are super swoopy (move rapidly from one side of the track to the other) you won't have a problem riding your own lines.

Well, I've tried on my last two track days and both times found my self crowded by riders. The problem being is that most B group guys go really fast in the straits and slow way down in the corners. And most A group guys treat the corners like a race by passing tight or "closing the door". I would ride track days different if I knew these other riders...but I don't and I can't have faith and trust them, so I'm just left with "frustration" so I stopped doing track days, then I found out about "open track days" but was too hurt for 2 years then too busy with work the last 2 years.

 

[canyonrat]

As for decreasing radius corners...I'll discuss this latter in an up coming article. I've noticed how to ride unfamiliar roads by watching fellow riders over the years and I think I can now put it in words. Some fascinating simple tips to ride unfamiliar roads at a fun and safe speed.

 

[horsepower]

What a stupid f-ing thread

Can't even read this thing beyond the ridiculous first post.
Reminds me of the video where Scott Lavell was trying to analyze why his friend died, and promptly ended his own career in riding, despite both riders being fantastic experienced "100 plus mph" riders.


Want to learn how NOT to cross the DY?
Slow down or go to the track or a parking lot and practice using your eyes to save your life in a controlled legal environment.
Grand Prix show jumpers jump 6' courses but practice daily on ground poles.
train your eyes and your mind here. It has nothing to do with needing to cross over and practice target fixating on the other side of the road. Train your eyes and your mind to hold or regain the inside line. Afterall, what if the guy on the other side is coming over the DY into your lane? Neither braking nor practicing crossing over will save you there...but learning to master skills like lean, counter steering and trail braking and looking for an exit are far better choices.

I guarantee you that a survey of riders will show that most experienced riders of 20 years or more have only crossed the Dy once or twice in their whole careers. And most likely it was early in their careers.
There is a reason for that. Figure it out.

 

[flying_hun]

The interesting discussion should focus more on what to do when you enter a decreasing radius turn both right and left. If anybody watches rnickeymouse's vids on YouTube, you'll see the classic responses to what riders do and why thy crash. How does one learn to tighten the arc, scrub off speed, trail brake, engine brake, add more lean, etc etc.

Vanishing point helps you see it in time to adjust

 

[canyonrat]

horsepower, I feel your emotion. The reason I brought the thread up was because we lost a rider in the Northlands two weeks ago. It was a non-recoverable crossing of the yellow situation. I too had a close call recently, but did not cross the yellow, thought I touched it, all do to debris in the road through several corners. I will say that I was riding too fast for the road conditions and do not know this road's conditions during winter. Because we now have spring like condition in the middle of winter, I know people will be riding faster then the season warrants; this is what just happened to me and possibly happened top the rider we just lost.

I got this big gray mass between my ears called a brain and it chatters all day to it's self and this chatter has got me thinking about double yellow recovery. So here we are with a thread on the subject of double yellow crossing.

The question of practicing recovery from a double yellow crossing is a valid question. But after 100 posts by the best of BARF members it clearly appears that practicing recovery after crossing the double yellow is an area we should NOT spend time on but rather practice areas that prevent it from occurring in the first place.

Emergency braking is worth practicing. Doc Wong is holding a braking clinic in two weeks.

Practicing at high speeds makes actual real life lower speed braking situations less demanding on one's braking skills.

Edit: content not changed just expanded upon for greater clarity of subject matter.

 

[DocWong]

Yea, I think it's vital to practice skills such as braking! To have the tools to get you out of trouble when you need them is quite a relief if you ever find yourself in an eyeopening situation when riding!

Hard, emergency braking can definitely get you into trouble if it's not practiced, whether by previous experience or purposefully practicing it. It's the techniques I definitely go over in detail in my Braking Clinic.

I always do emphasize "Baby Steps" to learning. If you're practicing emergency braking at 100 mph, I'm sure you're doing it in a safe situation and have worked up to that level of skill. The only place I've practiced hard braking is on the track, like at Thunderhill when speeds can get over 100 mph on the straight and you have to brake hard after the tower to enter Turn 1.

Other than that, every rider has to estimate their own skill level and work on improving that. For me I'd rather see a rider progress a bit too slowly than a bit too fast. Moving too fast and pushing your skill beyond what a rider can handle often results in mistakes or crashes, none of which are confidence builders.

Good luck in improving skills, it's something we all want to do I'm sure. Me, this last couple of years have been more riding with my newer rider wife, so my average speeds have been slower. Kind of weird for me, but learning lots about newer riders!

 

[horsepower]

Nick Ianetsch

There is a fantastic article in MOTORCYCLE WORLD this month by Nick Ianetsch which addresses a good deal of this stuff. Valuable reading.:thumbup


No one wants to see anyone cross the DY by accident, or to be the rider behind that guy. The consequences are never good and it preys on your brain and your fun. It can make you question your own riding. I get that. Sorry you had to go through that Mark.

 

[littlebeast]

if you are practicing and purposefully crossing the DY, and it ends badly for you, i promise to write something poignant and heartfelt in remembrance of you. it's what i do.

 

[Reli]

I believe it's considered OK in Cali to cross it if you drive a large, lifted 4x4 pickup.

I think you mean a WRX or other "import tuner"