I think I'm about to die

canyonrat

canyonrat

Veteran Knee Dragger
I hope I got your attention! I'm stepping into controversy. What to do when you cross the double yellow. Perhaps you are crossing because you lost traction while knee dragging. Perhaps unexpected debris on the road. Many say, “slow the fuck down” and thus avoid the situation completely. But it happens.

I've said this for years if not a decade plus, “If your going to cross the yellow, then shoot for the white line on the far side, regain control, look for oncoming vehicles, and get back to your side.” Implied is don't brake hard and low-side.

What I have NEVER done is actually practice this.

And yes there is a road with a corner that this can be done safely up here in the Northlands. I have been practicing my 100mph-to-zero emergency-braking on this particular corner for years.

With Doc Wongs “Braking Confidence & Skills Workshop!” Being held Thursday, March 12, 2015 at 6:30PM, coming up, I thought this topic might be useful and timely. Also along with the recent loss of highly skilled local rider in Lake County, it's timeliness feels even more important.

I ask all of you...what are your thoughts about actually practicing and purposefully crossing the yellow? Again on a safe corner. Yes I know the police might just hate this whole idea, but the reality of this is real and real serious.
 
bikeama

bikeama

Super Moderator
Staff member
rodr said:
I think it would make more sense to practice NOT crossing the DY.
Click to expand...

^^^^This.:thumbup

vvvvv Not This :thumbdown

I have been practicing my 100mph-to-zero emergency-braking on this particular corner for years.
 
canyonrat

canyonrat

Veteran Knee Dragger
This is the corner

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6534881,-122.466867,17z

Aetna Springs Road and Pope Valley Road in, Pope Valley, CA 94567. AKA Butts Canyon Road north of Barryessa. Many of you have ridden this corner, but it holds the following positive characteristics. A safe area to park your bike away from traffic. A thousand feet of visibility in all directions. Few side road hazards like fences, trees, telephone poles. Clean and smooth road surface. NOW I MUST SAY THERE ARE A COUPLE OF SIDE ROAD HAZARDS, BUT COMPARED TO OTHER LOCATIONS, IT HAS MUCH FEWER.

Edit: and no BOT Dots.
 
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kuksul08

kuksul08

Suh Dude
I have crossed the DY twice in my street riding career when I didn't intend to. I can specifically remember the times because it's that freaky, and it's only luck or something greater that has me here still.

One of those times, this practice wouldn't have worked. It was a downhill turn and the opposing lane had a metal guardrail with exactly zero shoulder. The only 2 options are get back in your lane, or fly over the guardrail to almost certain death. The cause was a sloppy downshift, and rear tire locking up.

I think it's best to practice NOT going in the other lane, because you don't always have the luxury of a nice safe run off. Learn to be smoother, go slower, look ahead, and pick better lines that lend themselves to having a little more margin for error.
 
DTM74

DTM74

It's not my fault...
Is any corner safe when you cross the DY? Why would you want to practice going into the oncoming lane? This idea sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.
 
m0t0_ryder

m0t0_ryder

RYD!
Practicing recovering from a potentially deadly bad habit is no way to make it better.
Work harder on avoidance (of DY crossing)... not recovery.
Just sayin....
 
clutchslip

clutchslip

Not as fast as I look.
rodr said:
I think it would make more sense to practice NOT crossing the DY.
Click to expand...
I am going out of character and going with the majority vote on this one. :twofinger Don't practice this move!

I have screwed up twice and crossed the dy on a curve.

One - bad case guards: one caught the tarmac, lifted the bike and I bounced my face off an oncoming BMW bumper.

Two - decreasing radius turn: I was two, to, too, hot for it, and jammed the brakes, stood it up, rode into dirt on the opposite of the road. Scared me into a cold sweat. I would have died, or worse, if a vehicle was coming the other way. BTW, I don't think "just lean more" is always a good idea.

Best of luck with your experiment.
 
WWWobble

WWWobble

This way...That way...
So all you folks who say Plan A is Don't cross the double yellow in the first place....

Right....And you've got a Plan B if Plan A fails, and practiced it? or even thought about it?

I think the concept makes sense. Sort of....

WWWobble
 
ilikefood

ilikefood

Well-known member
I think most people who cross the DY do so because they target-fixated and freaked themselves out, not because they ran out of traction. So practicing NOT target fixating and freakimg out seems like a better thing to do than practicing going over the DY. Especially since any ability to recover from going over the DY depends entirely on being lucky enough to not have someone coming the opposite way. You COULD try to practice how to fall from a great height, but it's probably better to practice not leaving out of a high-rise window.
 
clutchslip

clutchslip

Not as fast as I look.
WWWobble said:
So all you folks who say Plan A is Don't cross the double yellow in the first place....

Right....And you've got a Plan B if Plan A fails, and practiced it? or even thought about it?

I think the concept makes sense. Sort of....

WWWobble
Click to expand...
As I stated, I have done it twice, (that I care to remember). I LEARNED from those experiences and haven't done it again. Schools, books, and hopefully the internet, give you the opportunity to learn something without actually doing it. Doesn't that separate us from rocks? We can learn from others' examples. Why practice that which you know is bad? Your normal riding abilities SHOULD make you do the correct thing, whether you made a mistake in the first place or not. Avoiding the mistake, seems like the best solution for most things.
 
WWWobble

WWWobble

This way...That way...
clutchslip said:
As I stated, I have done it twice, (that I care to remember). I LEARNED from those experiences and haven't done it again. Schools, books, and hopefully the internet, give you the opportunity to learn something without actually doing it. Doesn't that separate us from rocks? We can learn from others' examples. Why practice that which you know is bad? Your normal riding abilities SHOULD make you do the correct thing, whether you made a mistake in the first place or not. Avoiding the mistake, seems like the best solution for most things.
Click to expand...

I agree. Avoiding a mistake is always the best idea.

Unintentional crossing a double yellow is never a good idea. But it happens. Several of us have probably done it, and like your experience, it probably makes a big impression.

I'm just suggesting that it makes sense to think about situations like you mention -- sometimes there is no more lean to give it. Error!! What do you do?

Thinking about this possibility as a situation, staying visually aware of what the oncoming lane environment is like, maybe even a practice shot or two at standing a bike up from full lean and placing it in a different spot as quickly as you can (say in a parking lot or someplace safe) might be a helpful exercise.

I agree you can't predict and plan for every mistake you'll make, but blowing a double yellow is something you can think about. Saying I don't need to think about this because I'm never ever going to blow a double yellow is not only poor planning, it is likely fantasy if you ride long enough.

WWWobble
 
russ69

russ69

Backside Slider
In all my years I think I only crossed the DY once and just slightly over. If you ride a late apex line it's almost impossible to cross over. If you are finding yourself getting near the yellow on every ride, it's just a matter of time before you are going to be someones front bumper going the opposite direction. Really if you having issues staying in your lane, you better address that issue first.
 
ilikefood

ilikefood

Well-known member
WWWobble said:
I agree you can't predict and plan for every mistake you'll make, but blowing a double yellow is something you can think about. Saying I don't need to think about this because I'm never ever going to blow a double yellow is not only poor planning, it is likely fantasy if you ride long enough.
Click to expand...

I'd disagree with this. You have to be doing some pretty crazy stuff on the road on a regular basis to worry about going over the double yellow. And if that's the case, then stepping back and re-examining your approach to riding will be a LOT better (and way safer) than continuing to ride crazy, but getting super good at handling going over the DY.

Keep in mind that you could be the best in the world at handling going over the DY, but your life will still depend on whether or not someone is coming around the bend at the same time, which you simply can't control.

Looking at it another way, yeah, I suppose you could practice how to be really great at Russian roulette, but it's a lot better not to play stupid games in the first place.
 
canyonrat

canyonrat

Veteran Knee Dragger
Clearly the majority is don't practice what to do once you've crossed the yellow, but rather practice how not to cross the yellow.

I've also said and taught for the better part of 10 years that you can't learn anything from crashing, you just need to focus on and learn to ride better.

Which is mostly true. If you drink and ride and crash, well you can learn not to...drink and then ride.

But we all can encounter these awful situations. I practice emergency braking. I've used emergency braking to possibly to save my life, and definitely to avoid a collision. So logic COULD suggest that one practice crossing the yellow and seeking the white line and then pulling back.

My thinking of this stems from a very dark aspect of motorcycling not ever written about that I have yet encountered.

The dark truth is that a STREET rider needs to experience enough "close calls" in order to become desensitized from them so that when the REALLY BIG CLOSE CALL occurs the rider does not freak and over react but rather maneuvers through the situation and to safety.

I'm proposing that desensitizing one's self to crossing the yellow, seeking the white, and then maneuvering back might be useful.

I'm also totally open to the idea that this idea is faulty.
 
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