Good Speed / Bad Speed
- Thread starter DataDan
- Start date
even at 51 i tend to get going in the high speed curves. like hwy 88 going east..or west.
great rd and the chp knows it. :shocker
sadly in the last number of years the cagers have found out about this less used way to tahoe. so now if you must speed you are going to get to go slow, due to traffic. need to learn how to pace the flow. :rofl
speed is for the track, safeness is for the rd. :wow
were and how i ride, deer are my worst fear. they will jump out from behind a bush, tree, rock, anything and any were onto the rd right in front of you.
cars, trucks, other bikes at least need a rd of some sort.
great rd and the chp knows it. :shocker
sadly in the last number of years the cagers have found out about this less used way to tahoe. so now if you must speed you are going to get to go slow, due to traffic. need to learn how to pace the flow. :rofl
speed is for the track, safeness is for the rd. :wow
were and how i ride, deer are my worst fear. they will jump out from behind a bush, tree, rock, anything and any were onto the rd right in front of you.
cars, trucks, other bikes at least need a rd of some sort.
Xovaan
the literate few
The thing that attracted me to motorcycles wasn't speed-- speed is something you can do on or in anything with relative mechanical skill or a large wallet. For me, the attraction to motorcycles is the fact that your entire body's dexterity is contributing to the overall balance and turning of the vehicle. My current bike I'd consider a pretty fast motorcycle (sub-10s quarter) but I honestly have no desire to ever go fast.
Speed, for me, is a tactical thing. Having a fast motorcycle means I can achieve speeds necessary to facilitate a maneuver I want without having to factor in as much sluggishness of my bike's acceleration. I already have the pacing skills necessary that I rarely rely on speed alone (my car for the last seven years has been a Volvo 240 wagon), but being able to have a larger margin of skill for traffic maneuvers is simply adding to your abilities and options on a motorcycle without any downside-- if you have self control.
That said, for the most part, I always go flow of traffic. The only time I am faster than the speed of traffic is the freeway and even so I keep my relative speed at most +5mph over cars around me, which is still pretty quick and only if it's an open area with little chance of merging and I can remain visible to drivers. Assuming 99.9% of drivers on the road are safe and check their mirrors every few seconds, you have to plan your speed so they'll see you in that split amount of time you're passing them, or, alternatively, so you have the time to react if they do something that isn't planned (which is usually always the case).
In that video, if I were that rider, I'd have split at the white line to the right of the truck if I could not have slowed down. Not that anybody should have gone that relatively fast anyway.
Speed, for me, is a tactical thing. Having a fast motorcycle means I can achieve speeds necessary to facilitate a maneuver I want without having to factor in as much sluggishness of my bike's acceleration. I already have the pacing skills necessary that I rarely rely on speed alone (my car for the last seven years has been a Volvo 240 wagon), but being able to have a larger margin of skill for traffic maneuvers is simply adding to your abilities and options on a motorcycle without any downside-- if you have self control.
That said, for the most part, I always go flow of traffic. The only time I am faster than the speed of traffic is the freeway and even so I keep my relative speed at most +5mph over cars around me, which is still pretty quick and only if it's an open area with little chance of merging and I can remain visible to drivers. Assuming 99.9% of drivers on the road are safe and check their mirrors every few seconds, you have to plan your speed so they'll see you in that split amount of time you're passing them, or, alternatively, so you have the time to react if they do something that isn't planned (which is usually always the case).
In that video, if I were that rider, I'd have split at the white line to the right of the truck if I could not have slowed down. Not that anybody should have gone that relatively fast anyway.
danate
#hot4beks
I have a little input I will weigh in with and see how it translates to motorcycles. I have been in emergency medical services for about 10 years. I have always had a keen interest in driving and have volunteered and always stepped up for driving courses and developed myself as a pretty good instructor when it comes to safe driving. I have also made it 13 years now since I first got my license without being involved in an accident.
The number one rule I give to new drivers when they end up being my partner or trainee is a very simple one: Always control your speed with the throttle.
Sounds like a "no duh" kind of thing, but a lot of people don't follow that rule. Ever be in the car with someone else driving and you notice them just charging forward on the gas towards a row of stopped cars at a red light, only to brake heavily to come to a stop? It just doesn't make sense to the passenger, but I'd say 80% of the layperson drivers do that noticeably. This becomes problematic when driving a 14,000 pound ambulance that still has stock brakes. If your vision is good and your throttle control is moderated based on what you see in front of you, your chances of staying out of trouble increase ten-fold.
I watch a lot of crash videos where I can see what's coming and the rider is still accelerating until it's way too late. In that video with the car cutting off the bike, you can see him starting his move way in advance even with the limited view of the camera. In the real world you should be able to spot that and already be off the gas in preparation to react.
I think it's hard for people to learn this without instruction. When training someone to drive an ambulance, I will literally tell them when I'd be reducing the gas and or covering the brake and it's usually long before they were planning on it.
If you can translate that to your motorcycle riding (it takes some translation because throttle control has an entire other purpose on the bike that's very important), then I think it will greatly increase your chances of staying safe.
I've got one year under my belt on the bike and about 25k miles so far trouble free. I'm hoping to repeat the last year about 30-40 more times in my life.
The number one rule I give to new drivers when they end up being my partner or trainee is a very simple one: Always control your speed with the throttle.
Sounds like a "no duh" kind of thing, but a lot of people don't follow that rule. Ever be in the car with someone else driving and you notice them just charging forward on the gas towards a row of stopped cars at a red light, only to brake heavily to come to a stop? It just doesn't make sense to the passenger, but I'd say 80% of the layperson drivers do that noticeably. This becomes problematic when driving a 14,000 pound ambulance that still has stock brakes. If your vision is good and your throttle control is moderated based on what you see in front of you, your chances of staying out of trouble increase ten-fold.
I watch a lot of crash videos where I can see what's coming and the rider is still accelerating until it's way too late. In that video with the car cutting off the bike, you can see him starting his move way in advance even with the limited view of the camera. In the real world you should be able to spot that and already be off the gas in preparation to react.
I think it's hard for people to learn this without instruction. When training someone to drive an ambulance, I will literally tell them when I'd be reducing the gas and or covering the brake and it's usually long before they were planning on it.
If you can translate that to your motorcycle riding (it takes some translation because throttle control has an entire other purpose on the bike that's very important), then I think it will greatly increase your chances of staying safe.
I've got one year under my belt on the bike and about 25k miles so far trouble free. I'm hoping to repeat the last year about 30-40 more times in my life.
That's just bad riding and totally avoidable. Riding that much faster that traffic, you NEED to anticipate that kind of crap in a car or moto. He should have started turning to the right as soon as he saw that car or hit his brakes, went towards the left and be prepared to split. He barely reacted beyond slamming his brakes which gave him those wobbles.
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smm
The Scootist
Agree about "totally avoidable." Disagree that it was a braking problem.
Notice what is in the first frame of the video: a sign for the next exit. And sure enough, 2 seconds later a car swerving across two lanes trying to make the exit. This happens all the time. Expect lane incursions any time there is a change in the road (exit sign, fat dashed line, fat solid line, crash barrels, etc.).
By "expect" I mean get your speed down to at most traffic+5, get out of blind spots, clean up overlaps and either get clear of visibility constraints like the truck, also in the first frame, or use them as blockers.
Passing on the right, probably more than traffic+10, next to an exit, with poor visibility is just rolling the dice. You have a very high probability of encountering situations that no amount of skill will rectify.
Well the speed the car was going at vs the speed the rider was going at, passing on the right would have worked long before the car made it to the exit (I know this because I ride/drive like an asshat sometime). As far a braking problem, all I meant is it looks like his bike starts to get wobbly before he got to the car which might of made him unstable (I'm not sure).
I've ran into shit like this just splitting lanes with less time to react without much more than me getting pissed off but still managing to avoid the car that cut me off. Driving with a speed difference like this is not horrible as long as you are constantly making up escape routes in your head. Slamming on the brakes in time should be one of those routes but not the only route. :teeth :ride
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Aruna
British Person
A great topic! :thumbup
IMHO, good speed is judged by the following criteria:
1. Having a reasonable relative speed to other traffic, which for me would be around 10-20mph either side of prevailing traffic speed, "prevailing" being those vehicles in your lane and the lane(s) either side of you. For instance, if the cars around you are doing about 60mph, you'd want to do somewhere between 45mph and 75mph.
2. Keeping a reasonable distance between you and the vehicle in front, a.k.a. the three second rule. The faster you go, the greater distance you need to have between you and the person in front of you in order to be able to stop in time if the person in front of you suddenly stops or loses control.
3. Having an "escape route" for the instances where you are closer than the three second rule. When you're preparing to overtake, for example, you may be closer to the vehicle in front, so you need to be able to change lanes or otherwise avoid the vehicle in front if they decided to suddenly stop or they lose control.
4. Observing the road conditions and understanding how those conditions affect how fast you can safely go. For example, if it's foggy and you can only see a couple of hundred yards ahead of you, be mindful of the fact that you may not be able to see hazards in enough time to be able to stop or avoid them. Same goes for high winds, wet roads, blind turns, darkness etc. The three second rule is useful in this situation, too... more than three seconds if you're dealing with rain, since that increases stopping distance.
5. Knowing the capabilities and limits of your vehicle. This is where I disagree with OP's original comment where it was said that a sportbike is not inherently safer than a Harley or a Vespa - a big hog can't corner as well as a sportbike, and a Vespa's braking and cornering abilities are dreadful! Not all bikes are created equal. For example, my husband used to have a Triumph Thruxton 900 which was kinda squirrely at high speeds, so he wouldn't take it much above 80mph. He now has a BMW R1100S and has been known to go quite a bit faster on that since it's solid as a rock at high speed.
6. Knowing the capabilities and limits of yourself as a rider. Don't have the ability to emergency brake within the distance you've left between you and the vehicle in front? Don't have the ability to swerve or stop at the speed you're going if you suddenly see a hazard in the road? Then slow down. Your safe speed may well increase as your skills increase.
These probably don't encompass everything to do with good vs. bad speed, but I feel like they're reasonable guidelines.
IMHO, good speed is judged by the following criteria:
1. Having a reasonable relative speed to other traffic, which for me would be around 10-20mph either side of prevailing traffic speed, "prevailing" being those vehicles in your lane and the lane(s) either side of you. For instance, if the cars around you are doing about 60mph, you'd want to do somewhere between 45mph and 75mph.
2. Keeping a reasonable distance between you and the vehicle in front, a.k.a. the three second rule. The faster you go, the greater distance you need to have between you and the person in front of you in order to be able to stop in time if the person in front of you suddenly stops or loses control.
3. Having an "escape route" for the instances where you are closer than the three second rule. When you're preparing to overtake, for example, you may be closer to the vehicle in front, so you need to be able to change lanes or otherwise avoid the vehicle in front if they decided to suddenly stop or they lose control.
4. Observing the road conditions and understanding how those conditions affect how fast you can safely go. For example, if it's foggy and you can only see a couple of hundred yards ahead of you, be mindful of the fact that you may not be able to see hazards in enough time to be able to stop or avoid them. Same goes for high winds, wet roads, blind turns, darkness etc. The three second rule is useful in this situation, too... more than three seconds if you're dealing with rain, since that increases stopping distance.
5. Knowing the capabilities and limits of your vehicle. This is where I disagree with OP's original comment where it was said that a sportbike is not inherently safer than a Harley or a Vespa - a big hog can't corner as well as a sportbike, and a Vespa's braking and cornering abilities are dreadful! Not all bikes are created equal. For example, my husband used to have a Triumph Thruxton 900 which was kinda squirrely at high speeds, so he wouldn't take it much above 80mph. He now has a BMW R1100S and has been known to go quite a bit faster on that since it's solid as a rock at high speed.
6. Knowing the capabilities and limits of yourself as a rider. Don't have the ability to emergency brake within the distance you've left between you and the vehicle in front? Don't have the ability to swerve or stop at the speed you're going if you suddenly see a hazard in the road? Then slow down. Your safe speed may well increase as your skills increase.
These probably don't encompass everything to do with good vs. bad speed, but I feel like they're reasonable guidelines.
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