Braking in corners

[Blankpage]

How many fingers on the brakes? With one finger I can scrub off enough speed to slow for corners while maintaining a fairly quick pace. However in a panic braking situation one finger isn't going to get the job done and it takes long enough going from one finger to two to hit the object I'm trying to avoid.

 

[Smash Allen]

use as many fingers as you need to get the job done


(that’s what she said)

 

[afm199]

How many fingers on the brakes? With one finger I can scrub off enough speed to slow for corners while maintaining a fairly quick pace. However in a panic braking situation one finger isn't going to get the job done and it takes long enough going from one finger to two to hit the object I'm trying to avoid.

Let's see.

My old Norton Commando needed all your fingers, the rear brake, and pushing into the asphalt with your spare foot to slow down.

My GSXR needs two fingers.

 

[stangmx13]

practice to find out. u might still be able to lift the rear with one finger, depending on the bike. but its difficult to know how hard u can and should pull that lever if uve never done it before.

 

[Blankpage]

One finger isn't going to lift the rear. Two fingers certainly will.
When cornering with two fingers over lever I'm sloppy on the throttle and with musceling the bike through transitions.
One finger over the lever and everything is smooth as can be, until I find a deer staring me in the face and need that half second it takes to get another finger in the lever.

I find it faster getting off throttle and onto full braking in a car than I do on a bike. And I've been riding for decades.

 

[tzrider]

When cornering with two fingers over lever I'm sloppy on the throttle and with musceling the bike through transitions.

Do you find there is any difference in your throttle operation in rights vs lefts?

 

[Blankpage]

Do you find there is any difference in your throttle operation in rights vs lefts?

I can't recall there being a difference but if I vaguely feel more of an issue in lefts. I'll pay more attention next time out.

 

[tzrider]

It's tough to be of much help without seeing, but there is a common asymmetry for a lot of riders. I don't want to give away what it is before you get the chance to make your own observation. I'll watch this thread for your response.

 

[Blankpage]

It's generally only an issue in tight stuff like 2nd and 3rd gear corners. Fast sweepers I can ride with 2 fingers resting on the lever but I'm not talking a track pace, just your friendly sharing the road and not wanting to die pace.

Could be a couple of weeks before I find myself out in the tight stuff. I don't see me getting out on the bike again this week and I'm out of town on a work assignment all next week.

 

[stangmx13]

One finger isn't going to lift the rear. Two fingers certainly will.
When cornering with two fingers over lever I'm sloppy on the throttle and with musceling the bike through transitions.
One finger over the lever and everything is smooth as can be, until I find a deer staring me in the face and need that half second it takes to get another finger in the lever.

I find it faster getting off throttle and onto full braking in a car than I do on a bike. And I've been riding for decades.

sounds like u already know exactly what u need to work on:
- throttle and bar control when 2 finger braking
- speed of brake application

if u want to increase your braking force with one finger, u can try moving your master cylinder to the left. the further the master is from your fingers, the more leverage u have, thereby trading pull distance for more force.

 

[Holeshot]

One finger isn't going to lift the rear. Two fingers certainly will.
When cornering with two fingers over lever I'm sloppy on the throttle and with musceling the bike through transitions.
One finger over the lever and everything is smooth as can be, until I find a deer staring me in the face and need that half second it takes to get another finger in the lever.

I'd not let you talk yourself into not being able to brake with enough force with one finger. I've used my index finger only for my entire time riding and it has plenty of power, but like you, I lose feel with two or more fingers. I tried two and went back to one. One difference may be that I always have my index finger on the brake lever.

Perhaps try looking for a reason other than your finger power when braking. Are you able to resist the forces of heavy braking so that you're not being thrown onto the tank? Staying tucked in/ hunched over when braking will affect your performance, FWIW.

 

[Blankpage]

I'd not let you talk yourself into not being able to brake with enough force with one finger. I've used my index finger only for my entire time riding and it has plenty of power, but like you, I lose feel with two or more fingers. I tried two and went back to one. One difference may be that I always have my index finger on the brake lever.

Perhaps try looking for a reason other than your finger power when braking. Are you able to resist the forces of heavy braking so that you're not being thrown onto the tank? Staying tucked in/ hunched over when braking will affect your performance, FWIW.

You must have massive paws. If I try only one finger I wouldn't come close to locking the wheel or looking anything like a panic stop.
And I have decent brakes on the Hyper SP.
I'm trying to get out of the habit of riding with one finger on the lever but old habits are hard to break.

 

[Holeshot]

You must have massive paws. If I try only one finger I wouldn't come close to locking the wheel or looking anything like a panic stop.
And I have decent brakes on the Hyper SP.
I'm trying to get out of the habit of riding with one finger on the lever but old habits are hard to break.

Not big hands, just a decent index finger I suppose. Could also be a leverage thing; how far out the lever is and where your finger is contacting the lever on it's entire length. I know several other friends who turn fast laps and are one finger brakers. Some are Pro level Champions, so it's totally do-able. One thing that helps me: not gripping the bar tight as I'm braking.

 

[LakeMerrit]

Track and street riding discussions are pretty different. That said, I'd just like to add that brake and throttle are not mutually exclusive.

Here's an okay read on 'brottle'

https://ridermagazine.com/2018/08/23/stayin-safe-proper-use-of-the-brottle/

 

[tzrider]

Working the throttle against the front brake rates pretty high up the bad advice scale. Whatever you're trying to accomplish with a "smooth transition" from brake to throttle is nullified by working one tire against the other. Yeah, it feels nice when there is traction to spare, but it's a great way to lose the front and fall down when close to the limit or in poor traction situations.

 

[Holeshot]

Jesus...I'm with Andy 100%. Motorcycles aren't Karts. I see all kinds of things wrong with engaging the front brake(s) AND throttle.

Some riders used to use the rear brake as a cheap traction control, but that's the only time i've found value in using a brake/ throttle at the same time.

 

[stangmx13]

concerning the motorcycle geometry, using throttle and brake at the same time makes the bike less stable. the rear end extends and the front compresses, leading to the most unstable "orientation" the motorcycle can be in. so ya, the "article" is full of shit.

I left a comment on that article. lets c if its allowed/published

 

[LadyDragon]

I'd recommend to video yourself, post and you will have more accurate advice for your specific riding style. :thumbup

There are things you can do to be more comfortable on the bike in corners. Suspension work, the right tire pressure, body position, smooth breaking / gas, setting up a body position before turns while breaking before the turn, rolling on the throttle in the turn, and more... There are New Rider Schools and even New Racer Schools through some track organizations. Feel Like A Pro can rent you a smaller bike like a 400 and you can work on corner speed and being comfy in a turn. Breaking markers help, how far you look ahead helps too... Have fun!!!!

 

[afm199]

concerning the motorcycle geometry, using throttle and brake at the same time makes the bike less stable. the rear end extends and the front compresses, leading to the most unstable "orientation" the motorcycle can be in. so ya, the "article" is full of shit.

I left a comment on that article. lets c if its allowed/published

Saw that. Eric Trow. Never heard of him.

 

[motomania2007]

concerning the motorcycle geometry, using throttle and brake at the same time makes the bike less stable. the rear end extends and the front compresses, leading to the most unstable "orientation" the motorcycle can be in. so ya, the "article" is full of shit.

I left a comment on that article. lets c if its allowed/published

They published your comment and the author published the following response as well:
https://ridermagazine.com/2018/08/23/stayin-safe-proper-use-of-the-brottle/

stangmx13: Thank you for your comment and perspective. Keep in mind that, for the street, we’re talking about “maintenance throttle” and not acceleration. Nor are we talking about heavy braking with this technique. Therefore, any chain pull or “jacking” of the rear end is minimal. We are also using both front and rear brakes with this technique. The rear brake helps to keep the bike flat (rear of the bike tends to squat with use of rear brake). Although this technique is used routinely by professional racers, we are using this technique on the street at legal speeds and as a smoothness technique. We also practice all braking while in a straight line on the approach to a curve, allowing the throttle to take over as the bike is tipped into the curve (again, maintenance throttle or “above idle” and not acceleration until the rider can see a clear exit of the curve). This technique is intended to establish unparalleled smoothness and provide the advantage of putting the motorcycle chassis in a transitional state that will seamlessly accept either more braking or less brake/more throttle without any upset to the suspension. It’s like butter. The feedback from our advanced rider training students has consistently been that the combined use of throttle and brake (brottle) when braking for curves and hillcrests has been transformative to their riding. That said, all of our tips are presented for readers to decide for themselves if a technique is right for them. I respect that this one may not be for you. Thanks again for the perspective. Enjoy the ride!