We still do. The skill riders work on in that drill is throttle control. No brakes is a format that removes the distraction and drama of hard braking so the rider can put his focus on entry speed.
Braking in corners
- Thread starter Spencerjo
- Start date
We still do. The skill riders work on in that drill is throttle control. No brakes is a format that removes the distraction and drama of hard braking so the rider can put his focus on entry speed.
Aware
Well-known member
Some people just don't use the rear brake. Others use their rear brake some or a lot.
I was taught to use both and have to actively force myself NOT to use the rear under the heaviest braking on the track.
Then there's adding rear brake to settle the rear. Or to "back it in". Or to give better control under heavy acceleration coming out of a turn. Or to assist the change of direction in a chicane. Or, or, or ...
The rear is massively useful and flexible in all sorts of ways. But is it *essential or *required? Given the number of people who say they never use it, clearly the answer.is no..
stangmx13
not Stan
I suspected you might bring up confidence in your tires. You aren’t alone in that for sure. Your tires will likely go A LOT faster than you are current pushing them. But how to get u to do that safely is the difficult part.
For my riding confidence, I like to “remove variables”, make sure as much stuff is perfect. Get your suspension dialed in by a pro. Make sure your tire pressure is close to ideal. At the beginning of your ride, do some hard braking and hard accelerating to get your tires HOT. Etc.
After u do all that, building confidence is likely related to seat time, good technique, and incremental improvements. Seat time will let u learn the feedback the bike provides when u have more grip or when something starts going wrong. Good technique and learning it is how u ride faster w less stuff going wrong. This thread is a good start. And incremental improvements make sure that u only try to ride 2% faster each time so u don’t get in over your head and crash.
stangmx13
not Stan
When I’ve raced in the rain, both on DOT race tires on a damp track or on rain tires on a wet track, of course we still trail brake to load the front tire. More normal load on the tire means more grip in all conditions.
I suspect that the problem has something to do w entry speed. When u commit to trail braking, your entry speed is likely higher. If the poor traction is right at entry, u might have been safer not trail braking. But if your entry speed was equal for both trail braking and not, u’d def be safer trail braking because of the extra grip.
Robert makes a good point of course... however just to be clear and race track when wet is different than the wet street. The operating temps of the tires vary a lot and so can the tires depending on what you buy for the road.
It is difficult to get tires to the temps that the track provides vs the street.
However the application of riding the track when it is wet "being smooth" is a great way to understand riding on the street in general.
Being smooth to me is being safer. Bike and body in balance maintains good control. As Robert said increase speed just a bit.. 2% was his number. That might be perfect :dunno But when you do increase if you loose the smooth and find yourself having to make sizable adjustments or find the bike hucking and bucking a bit I don't think you are making a sizable gain in the basic riding skill set. At least for a beginner.
Hucking and bucking happens here and there but I find not having it happen keeps me happier on my rides.
It is difficult to get tires to the temps that the track provides vs the street.
However the application of riding the track when it is wet "being smooth" is a great way to understand riding on the street in general.
Being smooth to me is being safer. Bike and body in balance maintains good control. As Robert said increase speed just a bit.. 2% was his number. That might be perfect :dunno But when you do increase if you loose the smooth and find yourself having to make sizable adjustments or find the bike hucking and bucking a bit I don't think you are making a sizable gain in the basic riding skill set. At least for a beginner.
Hucking and bucking happens here and there but I find not having it happen keeps me happier on my rides.
fortyonethirty
concussed
The first thing that sprung to my mind after reading your question: he needs to go to the track, and ride around with an instructor. This is one of those things that's hard to put into words that make sense: a bit of brakes can give you more traction. I know it sounds silly, but it's true sometimes. A real life demonstration is the best way to figure it out.
Another way try to visualize it: imagine what happens when a stunt rider leans way back over the rear wheel and applies the front brake, it skids. Now imagine what happens when he leans forward and brakes, a stoppie. This is not quite the same thing as braking while turning, but I hope it can help illuminate how pressure on the front wheel can change the usable traction.
Another way try to visualize it: imagine what happens when a stunt rider leans way back over the rear wheel and applies the front brake, it skids. Now imagine what happens when he leans forward and brakes, a stoppie. This is not quite the same thing as braking while turning, but I hope it can help illuminate how pressure on the front wheel can change the usable traction.
Hammerstime
Well-known member
I would suggest that you look into some dirttrack schools. Only 2 corners to learn and lots of laps over & over. Dirt riding will help you with becoming "Smooth" on your controls & make you more confident when you have actual traction.
What tires do you have? What sizes? What manufacture dates? What pressures?
raymond_h2002
Well-known member
I'm late to this party (I came here from you mentioning this thread in your other post), but I wanted to talk a bit about how i switched from 100% upright braking to trailing in.
When I first started, I simply kept my fingers on the brakes without activating them during turn-in, just to get used to the sensation of having my fingers still there while increasing lean angle. Once that stopped feeling weird, I kept the brakes on just enough to keep the brake lights on, releasing my fingers when I was picking up the bike again.. and then built up from there.
When I first started, I simply kept my fingers on the brakes without activating them during turn-in, just to get used to the sensation of having my fingers still there while increasing lean angle. Once that stopped feeling weird, I kept the brakes on just enough to keep the brake lights on, releasing my fingers when I was picking up the bike again.. and then built up from there.
My opinion - trail braking is essential skill for every riders, street or track.
What brake you're going to use and how, is really up to you (and can depend on bike as well - i.e. on cruisers you probably would use rear more, than lets say on sport bike) - as long as it gives you control in turn and make you feel "warm and fuzzy" you should be good
From my experience it just make you really calm in a turn, because you already have much more control over your speed.
What brake you're going to use and how, is really up to you (and can depend on bike as well - i.e. on cruisers you probably would use rear more, than lets say on sport bike) - as long as it gives you control in turn and make you feel "warm and fuzzy" you should be good
From my experience it just make you really calm in a turn, because you already have much more control over your speed.
Scot Steele
Member
Let us keep in mind the difference between braking while leaning the bike (trail-braking) and INITIATING braking while already leaned over.
stangmx13
not Stan
theres not much difference if u do both of them well.
if u watch any pro race, in a lot of the medium braking zones and prob all the light ones, the racers lean over first then start braking.
Trailing the front brake settles the chassis and increases contact patch. Release brake slowly as apex is reach and accelerate past the apex is how I've always cornered the 500K miles. Works for me.
As I would expect!! :thumbup
stangmx13
not Stan
as long as u understand the limitations of that technique and dont try to go faster in the corners, ull continue to be just fine.
T100
*Retired*
Yeah....I don't race or do track days, and I don't take corners at extreme limits. Hell...I don't use the brakes that much at all anyways LOL.
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khill
Well-known member
^ This
http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10123522#post10123522
I ran across a trail braking vid and posted up a new thread on it.
It may help understand this topic a bit more. Pretty solid info.
I ran across a trail braking vid and posted up a new thread on it.
It may help understand this topic a bit more. Pretty solid info.