Can somebody fill me in?

[SVJ]

I'll just add this- my original complaint wasn't that people were gassing it then parking it-BFD. I've spent plenty time of racing and riding, and seen all kinds of mistakes. I've probably made almost all of them.

It is the fucking jackasses that gas by, swerve to the right to get RIGHT in front of me at the start-finish, then grab a fucking fistful of brake before turning left. On what planet (or group) is it okay to do this? If you can't turn in from the line you are on, wait for the exit. And believe me- at the speed they were going, they could turn in from the left edge of the pavement.

Anywhoo- How are the people that were involved in the accident?

 

[MR662]

Like Ernie said, its a trackday and a faster rider isnt going to have a problem with a slower rider, just pass appropriately as its a trackday and not a race. If you're faster you will find your way around.

Im new to racing a little bike (R3). Im a mid pack racer that raced a few years off and on 2005 and 2008-09 with AFM in 750 prod on a 636 and later in Open Twins on my 1098s. Once I began racing I ran A group at trackdays Managed 2:05-2:07's on my Ducati in practice and racing ran 2:01-2:02's. The typical 2:10 cutoff from most providers for A group is a good mark. Most people running low two minutes are moving pretty good, but again as Ernie said if Im running 2:05's in A and a faster guy running 1:50's comes up on me, it's no different then me running against guys running 2:20's. Your clearly faster and you find a way around.

Anyways , back to the little bike, few weeks ago at AFM Sonoma race was my first time ever riding the bike and my return to racing after 10 years off. In practice I was mostly running 2:10's because they put me in group 2 since I was a returning Novice racer with no current lap times. People were in my way in the turns and would gap me in the straights, then Id be back on them in the turns. When I did lightwight clubman I dropped to 2:02's. By sunday races, against other 300's, I was running 1:58's. I expect to be running 55's next time at Sonoma as I get more comfortable on the R3. Its a different style bike to ride compared to 600's or liter bikes, but a decent 300 rider can definitely hold their own in A group at a trackday. When I raced Sonoma in 2008 on my 1098s, I only managed 51's and yet there are 300/400 riders running those times and faster in expert class. And while my 51's on a big bike werent blazing, they were quick enough for A group trackdays.

So i say keep the A group to lap times like they are now, with Carters 2:15's or below at Thill and 2:02's and below for Sonoma. Faster guys will safely find their way around slower riders and everyone has fun. Most FP AFM racers or Moto America guys arent going to be at the same trackday as you so there shouldnt be any one racer just blowing everyones doors off.

 

[MR662]

And for the little bike crew, Ill be at THill East with Fun Track Dayz Oct 4th. Im back racing and on an R3 and there are several other FTD regulars/staff that race 300's that are pretty fast. Will be a great time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Z675R]

I'll just add this- my original complaint wasn't that people were gassing it then parking it-BFD. I've spent plenty time of racing and riding, and seen all kinds of mistakes. I've probably made almost all of them.

It is the fucking jackasses that gas by, swerve to the right to get RIGHT in front of me at the start-finish, then grab a fucking fistful of brake before turning left. On what planet (or group) is it okay to do this? If you can't turn in from the line you are on, wait for the exit. And believe me- at the speed they were going, they could turn in from the left edge of the pavement.

Anywhoo- How are the people that were involved in the accident?

This has been driving me nuts! I'm totally fine with someone passing on the inside. Hell, I don't even mind if you make a block pass. Just don't come in on the inside and then get right in front of me. I'm on a 675, so it only happens every now and again on a long straight. I can only imagine how painful this is for dudes on 300s. We make the assumption that someone passing usually has a higher pace, so it's an unwelcome surprise to have someone drop the anchor right in front you. For some reason, it seems to have been coming up a bunch recently.

I just moved back to CA after living in the SE for a while. It's been interesting to see how the track days here differ. Back East, you had to have a control rider approve you to sign up for A group. I think it helped. There were fewer yahoos with really weird lines and such. It might be a good thing to have those pace cutoffs more rigorously enforced as well.

 

[MR662]

This has been driving me nuts! I'm totally fine with someone passing on the inside. Hell, I don't even mind if you make a block pass. Just don't come in on the inside and then get right in front of me. I'm on a 675, so it only happens every now and again on a long straight. I can only imagine how painful this is for dudes on 300s. We make the assumption that someone passing usually has a higher pace, so it's an unwelcome surprise to have someone drop the anchor right in front you. For some reason, it seems to have been coming up a bunch recently.

I just moved back to CA after living in the SE for a while. It's been interesting to see how the track days here differ. Back East, you had to have a control rider approve you to sign up for A group. I think it helped. There were fewer yahoos with really weird lines and such. It might be a good thing to have those pace cutoffs more rigorously enforced as well.

I completely agree about the passing and then get in front only to drop the anchor, unsafe and pisses me off but at the end of the day, Im still expecting and looking for it as Im not at a trackday to set a lap record. Ive heard the back east guys have a tougher A group but I dont think that would help. In my humble opinion, I don't generally think A group is the problem.... The majority of incidents seem to happen in the B group. They seem to have the biggest egos as they are no longer C group and looking to prove they can be in A group and run around making unsafe passes and stuffing eachother. Ive found that generally C group riders ride within there abilities and A group riders are skilled enough to safely navigate the track with different speed variables of various bikes.

 

[Z675R]

I agree that it probably doesn't make things safer overall...but it does make for a smoother A group!

 

[Holeshot]

Kondo makes good points. Well said by him.

A flat 2 minutes at TH would disqualify probably more than half the clubman racers on an AFM weekend. Honestly if we throw out the FP guys who are literally semi pro, I bet more than half the field of licensed racers aren't turning those times - in a race.

ALL AFM racers/ race times are public. Practice times can vary from race times by as much as 2-4 seconds for even well experienced, fast guys. It's good math to work with for this problem.

Correct. I doubt that 10% of all trackday riders turn 2:00 at Thill. That's fucking fast.

You know they don't. It's kinda funny, but "we" know all the guys running below about 1:56/55 or so and at TD's, it's small group. I can't recall the last time I've run into someone at that pace and didn't know immediately who they were. Of course, I also can't recall the last time I showed up at a TD before the crack of Noon.

My assertion is the huge speed differences between big bikes and little bikes presents a unique safety concern.

Very much truth. We have this same problem within AFM practice groupings. In P5, we have the national Junior Cup Champion in P5 and have the exact same problem with upper-mid pack litter bikes on the closing speeds. Rocco rails and still, the issue is the same.