Mitchyslick2
Well-known member
Let's hope I can keep up! :ride
Can somebody fill me in?
- Thread starter ViperThreat
- Start date
Let's hope I can keep up! :ride
DirtyD
Lives for MotoX
Riding a low hp bike in the faster groups can be a little tricky. Ask the late, great Gary J. He got taken out at Sonoma by a bigger, faster bike that thought they knew where he was going to be but didn't understand the big differences in speed in various spots on the track (I hope I'm making sense). Unless you're practicing for racing with the AFM I wouldn't recommend riding a low hp bike in the A or B groups. And if you ride a real motorcycle, watch out for the beginner bikes out there. They might surprise you with how late they can brake (they have to since they're so slow) and it's easy to misjudge a passing attempt. I have an R3 which I love but I would never take it to the track. That's not what it was made for. But it would be fun if everyone was on one.
Getnjgywitit
Dreaming of Riding
opcorn
Mitchyslick2
Well-known member
:laughing :laughing :laughing
sckego
doesn't like crashing
I regularly rode a lightweight ninja in B group--once even had an instructor pull up next to me after the first session, ask how many cups of coffee I'd already had, and told me to go get an A-group sticker.
I'd take the opposite view as you: unless it's an AFM Friday trackday, register for the group that your laptimes and corner speed dictate. Other riders in a trackday environment need to respect other traffic on the track, including those that can't hit warp 9 on the straights.
Tumbleweed
rollin' right along.....
Yeah....+1 on what Kegan said. I’ve been asked why I don’t go WOT on the straights...???? Uhmmmmm I dooooooo, it’s a 450 dude....you shoulda passed me in a corner...oh, you couldn’t ???? Riiight.
Clean passing, REGARDLESS of the circumstances, falls to the passer, NOT the passee. Experienced riders can recognize a smaller bike (or a crippled one). That’s like Passing101 “Know what you’re Passing”. :rolleyes
DirtyD, an R3 works just fine on track and can school up any number of peeps....it’s the rider, not the bike. Have you taken a gander at lap times? CC’s are not necessarily the answer. If you suck, you’re still gonna suck, even if you put your ass on a liter bike. Shit. The best bad-asses I know don’t need no CC’s. They’ll school you up sideways with their baby bikes. They are scary talented.
Thantos
Well-known member
Found the guy that goes wot on the straights but parks the corners.
DirtyD
Lives for MotoX
Yup. That’s me.
Look, I’m not saying that riding an R3 or a Ninja 400 at the race track isn’t fun. I’m just saying that it’s not fun when other riders who aren’t as talented as you are smoking you because their bikes are so much faster. And then you are battling with riders that are going much slower in the corners but are making up all of their time on the straights. Not fun, and possibly a little dangerous. If you have a choice on what to ride on the track, choose something that is faster than a Toyota minivan.
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afm199
Well-known member
Yup. That’s me.
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Yup, this guy is a barn door. Brakes early and often. He keeps trying to get under 1:50 at Thill but he won't ever do it. I pass him in the pits all the time.
Mechanikrazy
The Newb of Newbs
Yup. That’s me.
Look, I’m not saying that riding an R3 or a Ninja 400 at the race track isn’t fun. I’m just saying that it’s not fun when other riders who aren’t as talented as you are smoking you because their bikes are so much faster. And then you are battling with riders that are going much slower in the corners but are making up all of their time on the straights. Not fun, and possibly a little dangerous. If you have a choice on what to ride on the track, choose something that is faster than a Toyota minivan.
I agree to a small extent. Dealing with pass-and-park riders was part of the reasoning as to why I switched to a 450 triple R6 from the 300. When a 300 rider is only mid-pack in C or B, it can be quite annoying to deal with pass-and-parks. But once a 300 rider picks up a little more pace, they should be able to clear off from the majority of pass-and-park riders at most tracks. It still did get annoying to check up behind someone to set up a trackday-appropriate pass and get parked on by a big bike. All in all, riding the 300 at the track made me a way better rider than when I was on a 600. Though that's really not saying much. :laughing
I've done both sides - I usually ride my RC390 but I've brought out my Tuono on some occasions. It's better riding the RC390 in A because like Kalen said, riders hold their lines and I get stuffed less into corners. As long as no one's riding erratically, that's fine and I'll get by either this corner or the next if my pace and situation allows me.
And yea I do believe the lightweights can more than hold their own on turns 1-6, and its easy to power past starting from 7 on a larger displacement vehicle.
And yea I do believe the lightweights can more than hold their own on turns 1-6, and its easy to power past starting from 7 on a larger displacement vehicle.
cg_ops
1-Armed Bandit
Not sure why people are specifying bike size instead of skill rating for choosing which group to ride in. The riders in more advanced groups should know how to read other riders and pass accordingly. IMO, moving into A-group is about factoring in that ability (to judge other riders) and to ride predictably, not necessarily that you're screaming around the track... it seems there are plenty of fast guys that maybe shouldn't be in A group b/c they're riding beyond their skill and unpredictably. Alternatively, I'm happy to see a 250 rider in A group as long as I can tell every move they'll make 2 turns in advance.
I, too, haven't really had any issues on my R3 in A group.... at least none that have been conveyed to me In the end, we're all out there to have fun. It'd be nice if we could remove ego and just go out there to challenge ourselves. I like riding in both B and A group. A group helps me learn things by watching the (many) riders with more skill than me. B group is my favorite for learning how to maneuver through traffic and read other riders.
Can't we all just ride along?? :laughing :ride
He works magic on that Ninja 400!
I, too, haven't really had any issues on my R3 in A group.... at least none that have been conveyed to me In the end, we're all out there to have fun. It'd be nice if we could remove ego and just go out there to challenge ourselves. I like riding in both B and A group. A group helps me learn things by watching the (many) riders with more skill than me. B group is my favorite for learning how to maneuver through traffic and read other riders.
Can't we all just ride along?? :laughing :ride
He works magic on that Ninja 400!
inthewoods
Well-known member
Ran across someone in B at the last Sonoma on a small Ninja who was damn fast in the turns.
Gavin Botha
Well-known member
I have to agree with DirtyDan. The speed differences between 250's and 1000's is just too much. The braking points are vastly different and it is often impossible to judge where the 2 bikes will converge on the track. A 1000 doing 160+ on the straight with a ridiculous closing speed and a large brake zone runs up on a slow bike that does not require any braking at all can be dangerous. In all of my years of track days, the only close calls I have had are with huge speed differences with the small bikes. Regardless of riding capability or lap times, the speed differences are a problem. With small bikes becoming more popular, perhaps there should be a group dedicated to 450cc and less, or perhaps a fast group for 600cc and up. I would support a track day provider that did this.
Gavin Botha
Well-known member
B Group should remain as is - a free for all - skill or speed does not matter
Its a trackday not a race, just brake and turn in behind them, and then use your 1000cc’s to pass the 300 when exiting the corner. If the 300 is much faster in the corners that you cant catch up to them on the straights, thats a you problem, dont blame the 300. I never had a problem passing a 300, and have been passed by a bunch of fast ones. The speed differences I experience are when a 1000cc hauls ass on the straights, brakes waaaay too early, pitches a tent and starts sight seeing before every corner...cornering slower than the 300’s.
Exactly. You’re going faster than most people in the corners, if they are so much faster then they can use their 1000 to pass you coming out of corners. Not sure why many are against 300’s being in A group, probably just embarrassing since a r3 is lapping their r1.
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