Traction control

[jacob11379]

I am yet to ride a bike with this feature but i have been wondering how much of a factor does this have on track and race riding? (new bike has it and ill be able to use it hopefully this month...)

In theory it sounds great but im curious what those of you that went from not having it to having it think?

How you feel about the different levels of traction control bikes offer and if you are using them and how do you use them?

Such as starting off with none on, after 5 laps engage level 1, five laps move to level 2....as an example

How much does it help or restrict the rider?

Will it actually stop a low side/high side? maybe to some degree

 

[squidworth]

 

[Smash Allen]

I would have high sided myself countless times by now... I can show you the data... that’s how I was able to jump straight to liter bike still having never ridden a super sport...

Like Aleix Espargaró mentioned in his ‘how I ride’ recent article, I prefer torque precontrol which limits engine power depending on lean angle, speed, etc. which is proactive traction control... Compared to reactive traction control which waits until slip exceeds a certain threshold.

Kamm circle math goodness combined with a rocker switch to dial it in to your preference...

 

[jacob11379]

:rofl

 

[jacob11379]

I would have high sided myself countless times by now... I can show you the data... that’s how I was able to jump straight to liter bike still having never ridden a super sport...

Like Aleix Espargaró mentioned in his ‘how I ride’ recent article, I prefer torque precontrol which limits engine power depending on lean angle, speed, etc. which is proactive traction control... Compared to reactive traction control which waits until slip exceeds a certain threshold.

Kamm circle math goodness combined with a rocker switch to dial it in to your preference...

Do you have a link to that article?

I was watching a video the other day on a bike that drops two cylinders in corners. Probably all you guys know about this stuff but I was pretty impressed. But I already forgot what bike it was...

 

[Smash Allen]

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/motogp/how-i-ride-aleix-espargar

 

[Aware]

Pretty soon there won't be many of us left who've never used traction control gadgetry.

 

[day004]

Was that from Matt Maladin's bike?

 

[jaybocc2]

I come from gen 1 zx10r to gen4. I run Tc on lowest setting. I use rear brake and smooth throttle inputs on exit to minimize tc intervention.

Except that one time I heard Berto passing me on the outside of t5 and I went to power before I had finished turning and luckily failed the attempted Moon launch and finished the race
albiet behind berto :rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl

 

[afm199]

I am yet to ride a bike with this feature but i have been wondering how much of a factor does this have on track and race riding? (new bike has it and ill be able to use it hopefully this month...)

In theory it sounds great but im curious what those of you that went from not having it to having it think?

How you feel about the different levels of traction control bikes offer and if you are using them and how do you use them?

Such as starting off with none on, after 5 laps engage level 1, five laps move to level 2....as an example

How much does it help or restrict the rider?

Will it actually stop a low side/high side? maybe to some degree

If you want to start using TC, start at higher settings and work to lowest, not vice versa.

 

[Enchanter]

I use rear brake and smooth throttle inputs on exit to minimize tc intervention.

Are you really rolling on the throttle and using the rear brake simultaneously? That sounds like a recipe for disaster.

 

[Aware]

Are you really rolling on the throttle and using the rear brake simultaneously? That sounds like a recipe for disaster.

It's a long established technique to help load the rear suspension and gain greater control all round. Many of us have done this since last century. I've never encountered any disaster or near disaster doing it. What are you picturing might happen?

 

[jacob11379]

It's a long established technique to help load the rear suspension and gain greater control all round. Many of us have done this since last century. I've never encountered any disaster or near disaster doing it. What are you picturing might happen?

Seems a lot of information about it describes keeping the front end down as well....

But maybe thats what you meant from "all around"

 

[Enchanter]

Loss of traction and a crash due to managing 2 traction users at the same time, on a track, on the exit of the turn with less compliant suspension due to the engine attempting to extend the rear suspension while the rear brake attempts to limit that extension.

What is your / the technique doing to the suspension, and how is it providing "greater control all around"?

 

[stangmx13]

Loss of traction and a crash due to managing 2 traction users at the same time, on a track, on the exit of the turn with less compliant suspension due to the engine attempting to extend the rear suspension while the rear brake attempts to limit that extension.

What is your / the technique doing to the suspension, and how is it providing "greater control all around"?

why do u think dragging the rear brake on corner exit is a "traction user"?

the rear braking reducing anti-squat won't make it harder for the suspension to compress - it'd make it easier. however, im not sure that the rear brake on corner exit does actually produce a force opposite of anti-squat. it seems like it would reduce the torque caused by force at the contact patch. but it wouldnt reduce a torque caused by chain pull.

 

[Enchanter]

Yeah, 'user' was a poor word to use. 'Managing' may have been a better word, as in trying to manage traction with throttle and brake.

I read jacob's post as using the rear brake to limit or prevent traction control from stepping in. Still seems weird to me, but most of my track time was on a RS125.

In my thoughts, dragging the rear brake would limit extension rather than make it easier to compress. What am I missing?

I'm still unclear how rear brake application helps all around control in the situation described. Slow speed stuff, I'd agree.

 

[Kurosaki]

I am yet to ride a bike with this feature but i have been wondering how much of a factor does this have on track and race riding? (new bike has it and ill be able to use it hopefully this month...)

In theory it sounds great but im curious what those of you that went from not having it to having it think?

How you feel about the different levels of traction control bikes offer and if you are using them and how do you use them?

Such as starting off with none on, after 5 laps engage level 1, five laps move to level 2....as an example

How much does it help or restrict the rider?

Will it actually stop a low side/high side? maybe to some degree

 

[stangmx13]

Yeah, 'user' was a poor word to use. 'Managing' may have been a better word, as in trying to manage traction with throttle and brake.

I read jacob's post as using the rear brake to limit or prevent traction control from stepping in. Still seems weird to me, but most of my track time was on a RS125.

In my thoughts, dragging the rear brake would limit extension rather than make it easier to compress. What am I missing?

I'm still unclear how rear brake application helps all around control in the situation described. Slow speed stuff, I'd agree.

on a 600 or 1000, I wonder what would happen if u got hard on the rear brake at WOT (assuming no wheelie). I bet itd feel like u just rolled off the throttle, which is rly no big deal. of course, if u continued the slow, the tire would eventually lock. but I suspect ud have a long time before that happened.

"limit extension" is the same thing as "make it easier to compress". its just a force balance. anti-squat is a vector pointing down (simplified). a bump produces a force pointing up. the resulting acceleration is determined by their difference. so if the rear brake produces a force pointing up, all bumps now compress the suspension further, perhaps closer to their "normal" amount.

 

[jacob11379]

Do we know TC was on?

I certainly dont think it would stop them from happening just wondering if it helps, if racers are using it and how, or why not.

But that is a terrifying pic. Serious High side!....was he injured?

 

[berth]

But that is a terrifying pic. Serious High side!....was he injured?

No, with modern GP tech, this photo is actually taken 2 minutes after the event. The GP Stasis field kicks on waiting for EMS to come turn it off. They put padding underneath the riders for them to fall on.