Track skills vs. street skills

[Papi-C]

after riding the track this year, i've decided i don't want to ride street anymore. i'd rather be out on my bicycle getting in a good workout than sitting on my motorcycle bored and wishing i was at the track. riding street for me just isn't fun anymore at the slow paces, and even at the slow paces, the risks seem so much higher to me than the risks on the track. in the end, it just isn't worth it for me to ride street anymore.

I hear ya. I'm debating getting something docile and upright for the street and having my r6 be track only

 

[Cycle61]

On another note, for you all that say that you have slowed down when riding on the streets. Did you actually slow down or did your perception of what fast is, change?

This is a really interesting question. Hadn't looked at it that way.

 

[racercosmo]

Track riding has little to no correlation to my I80 riding.

 

[FourT2Infinity]

I really do find it interesting when riders who just experienced their first time on the track decide to write off street riding all together. While I love track days and appreciate what the opportunity brings, I feel it is simply another aspect of the whole motorcycle experience. I truly do enjoy the social benefits of both and cannot do without either one. Even the occasional coffee house meet-n-greet is part of the enjoyment.

I believe that track experience/training, a mature mindset and situational awareness allows us to develop a plan, execute that plan, and react/adjust appropriately when changes to the plan occurs. Ultimately, this creates a more capable and safer rider whose chances of surviving the streets have just drastically increased. A bit of luck goes a long way too.

Great topic… :ride

 

[quicknova]

I have always enjoyed riding both street and track. When I first got into racing I always thought I knew how to ride a motorcycle since I’d been riding since I was 5. BOY was the first track experience an eye opener!!
I hadn’t thought about speed on the streets since I hadn’t gone for any “spirited rides” since racing until recently when some friends invited me out to go play.
I remember us all being at about the same level since we had all been riding together for so long although I was the only one to take it to the next level by taking racing schools, getting a race license and playing on the track.
I felt as though I was going slower than ever on the streets but my friends said I was flyin and they couldn’t keep up. So many different things to take in on the street such as other cars, guardrails, gravel, oil spots, animals etc..
So I guess my perception of what fast is changed due to the fact of gaining rider ability and actually experiencing faster speeds in a controlled environment.
Going back to the street however kind freaked me out with all the extra sensory inputs that need to be taken into account again.

 

[ThinkFast]

As we rode home from my first track day, with wife on the back, her first comment to me was how much smoother I was in the corners. Track riding and then racing has made me a much better street rider when it comes to braking, judging corner entry speed, looking through corners, choosing a good line, and not trying to ride so fast (on the street).

Oh, and in order to reduce temptation further get a slower bike for street riding - I like my Harley Road King. No it won't corner the way my race bike does. Come to think of it, that's the point.

 

[afm199]

As my track riding becomes faster, my street riding becomes slower. I really ride slowly on the street now.

 

[Caddywumpus]

As my track riding becomes faster, my street riding becomes slower. I really ride slowly on the street now.

cuz your old ernie.

 

[DefyInertia]

I really do find it interesting when riders who just experienced their first time on the track decide to write off street riding all together. While I love track days and appreciate what the opportunity brings, I feel it is simply another aspect of the whole motorcycle experience. I truly do enjoy the social benefits of both and cannot do without either one. Even the occasional coffee house meet-n-greet is part of the enjoyment.

I believe that track experience/training, a mature mindset and situational awareness allows us to develop a plan, execute that plan, and react/adjust appropriately when changes to the plan occurs. Ultimately, this creates a more capable and safer rider whose chances of surviving the streets have just drastically increased. A bit of luck goes a long way too.

Great topic… :ride

+1 and you can't tour/explore on the track

 

[dyeung0415]

I just started riding not too long again and I started off with a GS500E. I didn't do much though, as another thread said, I was just adding miles to the engine with no real experience. Though I've never been to a track with my bike I really want to. I moved up to a 1989 FZR400 and I love the bike.

Couple weeks ago, my friend's took me to Highway 35. They knew it was my first time so they told me to go slow. I thought to myself, I can't be that bad at riding, I should be able to keep up with them a bit.

I was very wrong. In about 2 seconds I was left in the dirt. I immediately wanted to go faster but I knew my limits and decided to stay at the comfortable speed.

Though this isn't a track experience, I'm guessing the track is a lot more rewarding because I felt a big increase in confidence after that run. Though I didn't go super fast like my friend's did. It helped me practice turning, braking and knowing your limits and right now I can say I have a lot to learn.

Just thought I'd share this experience with everyone especially for the new riders out there. Don't go past your limit. Ride safe and enjoy the ride =]. You don't have to go super fast and do crazy knee drags to gain experience, I went at my slow pace and I felt that that was a very valuable experience. Hopefully one day I can increase my skills in the tracks without the worries of crashing into a car or tree.

 

[damian]

Track =06 gsxr 1000.
Street =99 bmw r1100gs.

 

[Enchanter]

Track =06 gsxr 1000.
Street =99 bmw r1100gs.

Huh? This is a discussion related to skills, not the motorcycle. Do you have any input in that area?

 

[VFRBenny]

Hi All,

On my solo ride yesterday I was thinking about how much my recent track day had improved my confidence and general bike handling skills on the street. I also thought about how some of the attitudes and skills practiced could be detrimental to safe riding (at least without the proper attitude and mental framework). I want to know what you all think about this and whether you have developed track habits that were detrimental to safe street riding.

So for me, in the positive camp.

• I learned the limits of myself and the motorcycle - I no longer have to search for those on the street. Hey I got slower after my trackday! :ride
• In combo with proper suspension setup - I am much more planted in a corner
• Much more confident in my ability to make safe mid corner inputs and trail break if absolutely necessary (this rarely happens to me on the street)

In the negative camp:
Mostly it's a matter of reflex training and habits that are not good to carry over to the street (this is, as always, just my opinion not a statement of fact, so feel free to disagree)

• Knowing the track well enough to throw the bike into a blind decreasing radius corners at speed
  -As opposed to reading the vanishing point
  -As opposed to never out riding sight lines
• Trusting, hot sticky track rubber that does not usually get to that temp on the street
  -I know; learning to read traction is critical and is learned best on the track
• Incrementally moving breaking markers closer and closer to the corner and trail braking
  -This was the hardest thing for me to do at the track because of 15 years of always getting my breaking done way ahead of a turn with the old slow in/fast out philosophy

In my 20's(25 years ago)I was a motorcycle messenger. I did some track time and had a friend I could never get close to on the track. But he could not keep up with me on the street.

I messengered for 12 years, about 4 on the motorcycle and 8 on bicycle.

The years were mixed because of suspensions and revoked CDL.

I can honestly say, the track time did not help me with heavy traffic riding.

It may have giving me an edge in the hills, but I've never cared for hauling ass around blind corners/curves.:ride

 

[MellowYellow]

In my 20's(25 years ago)I was a motorcycle messenger. I did some track time and had a friend I could never get close to on the track. But he could not keep up with me on the street.

I messengered for 12 years, about 4 on the motorcycle and 8 on bicycle.

The years were mixed because of suspensions and revoked CDL.

I can honestly say, the track time did not help me with heavy traffic riding.

It may have giving me an edge in the hills, but I've never cared for hauling ass around blind corners/curves.:ride

if you were a messenger you are crazy anyway so it does not matter !!

 

[cnile97]

Experience taken from my past track school with Reg Pridmore

Yes I agree with the positive outcome / benefits that track experience has with regular street riding. I am much more aware and in control of myself, the bike and the conditions around me. I learned a lot about control and smoothness with Reg Pridmores track school. A lot of his philosophy is really related in and around safety and proper and reasonable techniques. The experience has humbled me as a rider for sure. It's an experience I highly recommend.

 

[louemc]

Hummm, Could be just a terms thing. Skills are developed on the track (and in the dirt). Those skills are combined with the judgement used on the street.
That combined set is the street skill.

 

[zx10]

Okay here is my take on this. Riding since I was 6. Got my first streetbike when I was 18. Didn't listen to all the internet garbage about getting a 250 and bought a new kawasaki 636 (which worked out perfectly well.) I started picking up my street pace very quickly and started doing speeds well past 2-3x the speed limit in the hills. Everytime I stopped at 4 corners alices etc.. if I flogged a guy through the turns I would eventually see him roll up where we stopped and usually get the same story they all say and its "oh I just go fast on the track." So after 4 months of street riding I hit the track and ironically I saw some of these same people on my first track day. Obviously I was signed up c group since I had never raced a street bike on the track before just cars. And suprisingly these guys were all in c group and some in b group. My second track day I went back and registered a group and kept up with the pace. Made a couple a group friends in my time and started riding with them on the street. All of us usually ride at blistering fast speeds in the turns and go really mellow on the the straights. Now getting to my point. I've never even heard of one of us ever crashing in the hills. But its so ironic to me that all the slow guys I know that 9 times out of 10 are just as slow on the street as they are on the track are the ones I read about binning their bikes. And what's even more aggrivating is that exact same group is the ones preaching the track is the only place to go fast and we should all ride ninja 250s. I do see the point about the street being a dangerous place and its a road for transportation and not racing and that is all very true. But a part of me thinks through honing in my skills at tracks and canyons I actually can to some extent ride the street like a track. I know how to controll slides, rear wheel slips, chatter, and dodge obstacles just like you do at the track.

Its all in the rider you want to be is what I'm saying. You can be fast on the street and the track and have an amazing time on both. But maybe honing in your skills like braking, corner speeds, setting line, etc at the track will make you a safer rider on the street.

Just my opinion. I know most will not agree but its obviously worked for me for a while.

 

[MrBeckman]

Okay here is my take on this. Riding since I was 6. Got my first streetbike when I was 18. Didn't listen to all the internet garbage about getting a 250 and bought a new kawasaki 636 (which worked out perfectly well.) I started picking up my street pace very quickly and started doing speeds well past 2-3x the speed limit in the hills. Everytime I stopped at 4 corners alices etc.. if I flogged a guy through the turns I would eventually see him roll up where we stopped and usually get the same story they all say and its "oh I just go fast on the track." So after 4 months of street riding I hit the track and ironically I saw some of these same people on my first track day. Obviously I was signed up c group since I had never raced a street bike on the track before just cars. And suprisingly these guys were all in c group and some in b group. My second track day I went back and registered a group and kept up with the pace. Made a couple a group friends in my time and started riding with them on the street. All of us usually ride at blistering fast speeds in the turns and go really mellow on the the straights. Now getting to my point. I've never even heard of one of us ever crashing in the hills. But its so ironic to me that all the slow guys I know that 9 times out of 10 are just as slow on the street as they are on the track are the ones I read about binning their bikes. And what's even more aggrivating is that exact same group is the ones preaching the track is the only place to go fast and we should all ride ninja 250s. I do see the point about the street being a dangerous place and its a road for transportation and not racing and that is all very true. But a part of me thinks through honing in my skills at tracks and canyons I actually can to some extent ride the street like a track. I know how to controll slides, rear wheel slips, chatter, and dodge obstacles just like you do at the track.

Its all in the rider you want to be is what I'm saying. You can be fast on the street and the track and have an amazing time on both. But maybe honing in your skills like braking, corner speeds, setting line, etc at the track will make you a safer rider on the street.

Just my opinion. I know most will not agree but its obviously worked for me for a while.

I think you would actually hone more of your skills on a 250

 

[louemc]

ZX-10 has a 125 MX in his list of bikes, Are you suggesting he hasn't honed skills?

Anyway I see it just as he sees it. (as long as the sight line rule is observed)

 

[ThinkFast]

Okay here is my take on this. Riding since I was 6. Got my first streetbike when I was 18. Didn't listen to all the internet garbage about getting a 250 and bought a new kawasaki 636 (which worked out perfectly well.) I started picking up my street pace very quickly and started doing speeds well past 2-3x the speed limit in the hills. Everytime I stopped at 4 corners alices etc.. if I flogged a guy through the turns I would eventually see him roll up where we stopped and usually get the same story they all say and its "oh I just go fast on the track." So after 4 months of street riding I hit the track and ironically I saw some of these same people on my first track day. Obviously I was signed up c group since I had never raced a street bike on the track before just cars. And suprisingly these guys were all in c group and some in b group. My second track day I went back and registered a group and kept up with the pace. Made a couple a group friends in my time and started riding with them on the street. All of us usually ride at blistering fast speeds in the turns and go really mellow on the the straights. Now getting to my point. I've never even heard of one of us ever crashing in the hills. But its so ironic to me that all the slow guys I know that 9 times out of 10 are just as slow on the street as they are on the track are the ones I read about binning their bikes. And what's even more aggrivating is that exact same group is the ones preaching the track is the only place to go fast and we should all ride ninja 250s. I do see the point about the street being a dangerous place and its a road for transportation and not racing and that is all very true. But a part of me thinks through honing in my skills at tracks and canyons I actually can to some extent ride the street like a track. I know how to controll slides, rear wheel slips, chatter, and dodge obstacles just like you do at the track.

Its all in the rider you want to be is what I'm saying. You can be fast on the street and the track and have an amazing time on both. But maybe honing in your skills like braking, corner speeds, setting line, etc at the track will make you a safer rider on the street.

Just my opinion. I know most will not agree but its obviously worked for me for a while.

Doood - you're awesome. Keep up the good work. Just promise me this - you'll save your note and start with it when you post up about your first big crash in the Analysis forum. :rolleyesOK, that was mean. What I meant to say was - the street, unlike the track, is not a controlled environment.

But a part of me thinks through honing in my skills at tracks and canyons I actually can to some extent ride the street like a track. I know how to controll slides, rear wheel slips, chatter, and dodge obstacles just like you do at the track.

Those things will all help you survive some situations. It only takes one weird combination of stuff - let's say [choose one only, please] loose gravel/sand/leaves/antifreeze/oil/diesel/water (yes, water) all the way across your side of the road in the middle of a decreasing radius blind corner that you're excellent skills allow you to take at, say, 50 mph, which is double the posted 25mph (I know you can do it) - and a dually pickup pulling a 5th wheel camper coming the other way with only a couple wheels over the double yellow, crawling up a hill. And you're doing 50. Think you're going to back 'er in, like you would on your dirt bike? Throw some roost on the exit? No. You're not. Newtonian physics will take over and things will get ugly from there. Hubris and motorcycling do not go well together - at least not for very long.

Be safe out there.