Track skills vs. street skills

[clutchslip]

:thumbup this is what I'm looking for!

Then why did you post the question? You apparently were just waiting for reinforcement of what you already concluded.

I find it ridiculous that people riding in the street would need a track to figure out what you need to do in the street. How did they survive before they went to a track?

 

[RRrider]

Maybe we're crossing wires here. I didn't actually post a question in this thread, rather I posted an observation that I liked the debate in this thread, and stated that i was going to try the track. Enchanter summarized what I hope to get out of the track...and of course fun. I wasn't seeking anything really, more just sharing, as that's what this forum is about to me. I am surviving on the street, you're right. I just think that I might learn faster if I add in some track time. And I like getting better! So track, here I come :ride

 

[louemc]

Beautifully said my friend

I'm not saying I'm nicky haden guys and I'm not the fastest guy out on the streets at all. There are plenty of people I ride with that are faster than me. I'm just saying after all these years of practicing going as fast as possible you build a mental stamina just like louemc said. Downshifting leaning braking etc is all second nature in every form to me now. Now I focus my attention on the turn and believe me I do constantly scan for issues in the road. Its amazing what you can train your body to do. I can't tell you how many times I've seen gravel and instead of standing the bike up and riding right through it like a lot of people do (target fixation) I will immedeatly gas lean and make an effective new line. Its just after time.

And my god dude for those of you that bitch an moan about objects on the street. I NEVER heaar you talking about mx riding. There is a reason my crf450 goes 100mph. And it is not uncomon to go 65 mph. Or say 50mph through a burm. Do you think were just out in a completley controlled enviornment? No dude there's trees. Rivers. Snow. Lakes. Unforseen ponds. Trees trees and more tree. Deer. Wild boars. Wooden and metal fences. Etc..

Now I know the reason most of you don't go putting 2 and 2 together like that is because you've never touched a dirtbike in your life. Go spend some time on a dirtbike if you're still scared about street obstacles. You will immedeatly learn to perform all riding fundamentals without thinking just doing. And spend the rest of your time looking out for cliffs. Boulders quads going the wrong way. Etc.. so please don't tell me about avoiding objects though guys I sincerley believe I've avoided way more and way worse than any of the pussy footer street riders.

We speak the same language...

 

[louemc]

For me, after doing enough trackdays, I've found that my track skills are definitely exclusive of my street skills, and vice versa.

After awhile, it became even more evident how much different the two disciplines are. Simultaneously, it made me realize what is truly the appropriate type of riding in the street in order to fully enjoy it without the heightened consequences.

More important than being glad at track riding for teaching me proper riding techniques, I'm more grateful to track riding for teaching me to be one of the most humble, cognizant, and disciplined rider on the streets, especially in the twisties.

That's how I see it as well.. although I don't have any track history, I see track and street as two different disciplines...the bike management/handling skills gained from the track, certainly come into play on the street (as does the skills from aggressive dirt riding)...But the street has it's own laws that have to be obeyed..and there is very little forgiveness..when they aren't, usually.

Where I see most riders hurting themselves...
falls into two types.

1. The rider that never worked at getting skills, just went at it, trying to be as fast they (with bad judgement) dared to ride. Trying to duplicate what the track, provides..without going there.

2. Cruiser riders that don't think there is any reason to dress for riding, or have any more skill that what it takes to get the license endorsement.
In their mind, they are only cruising..no need to develop race skills.

That's two different ways to confuse the track and the street...but both ways are confused.

And happy to be oblivious...until the bad thing happens...
and even then excuse it with "shit happens".

 

[Lumberjack]

For me the track greatly improved my overall skills - I did the track school though which was a big part of the help - tought me how to position myself on the bike to reduce lean angles and how to turn in and such. Now on the street I can rail the same corner faster (if I choose) but also with more confidence and less lean angle than before I went to the track... Track made me much more confident in my abilities..

BTW I find the street plenty fun after riding track, not like it spoiled it for me..

I go maybe 90% on the track and 60% on the street these days, though my 60% doesn't mean I'm not riding fast, just that it's WELL within my own limits, which increased greatly through track riding..

 

[KazMan]

soooo many things to say....

I see this more along the lines of everything and anything learned from an experience riding anything on 2-wheels will help you become a better motrocyclist. Why we are trying to separate and draw lines always baffles me.

just trying to stay humble and respectful to all unless shown otherwise.

 

[Maddevill]

Fast riding on the track is a test of your skill, fast riding on the street is a test of your nerve.

 

[louemc]

Fast riding on the track is a test of your skill, fast riding on the street is a test of your nerve.

Only speaking for myself...but...I don't see riding on the street as a nerve thing. Whatever I'm doing (on the street) I'm evaluating a question of is this safe...if not safe, what do I have to do..to make it safe.

That is...speed up or slow down...pick a line that will stay clear...move to a part of the lane that is to my advantage...something (water/dirt/gravel/broken pavement/cattle guard/whatever) going to be crossed? pick a line that allows for the turning, before and after the surface that is questionable...don't turn on that surface.

Figure the odds...is danger likely? Cool it, till that possibility is behind you (or not a possibility any more.

I'm relaxed and confident...nothing to get tense about...nothing to get my nerves concerned about.

I do keep the awareness radar in motion...but that prevents surprises, and keeps the relax thing feed.

 

[LadyDragon]

track vs street

I think going to the track has helped me to process information faster (debris, curvature of corners, etc) and made me a safer rider overall. I still ride the same pace on the streets as I did before running on the track, many times slower. I definitely feel safer overall on the street, feeling like I know more of the capabilities on my bike and how to react to surprise situations.

:thumbup +1 I ride slower on the streets now to my initial perturbment... Others noticed too, but ive been safer, stronger, a better leader, not as rash or dangerous as i used to be, better solid lines, and I hope to still get better and continue my riding skills street and track riding!! Plus theres no place like the track and good conditions to see what you and your bike can really do! :ride

 

[jraice]

Fast riding on the track is a test of your skill, fast riding on the street is a test of your nerve.

Fast riding is the same no matter where you are.

It takes skill to ride at top ten percentile on the street, just as it does on the track.

One may be smarter than the other but that doesn't make street riding purely about nerve.

It takes a lot of nerve to tip into a turn at 100mph street or track.

 

[DataDan]

Fast riding on the track is a test of your skill, fast riding on the street is a test of your nerve.

Fast riding is the same no matter where you are.

It takes skill to ride at top ten percentile on the street, just as it does on the track.

One may be smarter than the other but that doesn't make street riding purely about nerve.

It takes a lot of nerve to tip into a turn at 100mph street or track.

The difference on the street is the unknown.

A rider may have the skill to take a certain turn at 60mph: If it were duplicated at the track, he wouldn't have any problem at that speed. But as it sits on the street, it's blind and the apex isn't visible on approach. So 60mph is purely an act of faith. Faith that it goes where it seems to go, that the surface is clean, that there isn't an oncoming SUV with two wheels over the double-yellow.

On the track, those variables are mostly eliminated--radius is going to be the same as it has been all day, and if there's a hazard the flagger will warn you. Freed of those unknowns, it's your long-practiced skills that limit speed.

But in street sport riding, we have to make decisions about entry speed, line, etc. considering not just abilities, but also the unknowns and the consequences of misjudgment. In some turns, it may be possible to go as fast as in a similar turn at the track. In others, a poor sightline makes track speed a crapshoot, or a sheer rock face rather than soft runoff could turn a small error into a deadly one.

When I take those factors into account, I sometimes finish a turn with an unsatisfied feeling: "I coulda done that bitch 20mph faster!" Yup, Captain Hindsight, you coulda. Or, if the unknowns had worked out less favorably, you coulda turned in 20mph faster and ended up sliding on your ass, watching your motorcycle tumble over a cliff. That's just a tradeoff that's necessary on the street.

 

[Lumberjack]

I've gotten pretty conservative about taking corners fast on the street, for the above mentioned reasons - I'll go quick, maybe 20+mph indicated above the yellow speed suggestion signs, if I have good sightline, but I don't push it that extra 15-20mph that I could probably take that same turn at because of the risk and unknown...

On straight roads where it's not that crowded though, I go pretty fast at times - the track hasn't slowed down my speed on these roads one bit, though I would say I'm very good about picking safe times to speed - when the traffic is light, there's no real risk on a straight road (like a freeway) except getting a massive ticket, which is something I take into consideration before I crack the throttle open.. When I speed though it is for very short bursts - I see a spot with no cars and no cops, and hit it hard for a few seconds, then I get right on that front brake and I'm back to a safe 5-8mph over the limit..

It's hard to ride slowly though, even though I'm not overly aggressive - my bike just begs for it too - riding slow on the z1000 - honestly, I think if someone wanted to do that they should get a different bike because that thing feels like its chomping at the bit at all times.. I suspect other fast sportbikes are the same way..

 

[RRrider]

I have bike just begs for it too - riding slow on the z1000 - honestly, I think if someone wanted to do that they should get a different bike because that thing feels like its chomping at the bit at all times.. I suspect other fast sportbikes are the same way..

I know what you mean. I find myself doing that little pop of speed for short bursts on the highway as well...when I feel it is safe ( no cars, good line of sight, good road). In the twisties, I follow the pace, and there I like the ergonomics and tire traction of a sport bike.

 

[R1-Limited]

I think comparatively (I am speaking from no Track Day but 1) Track and Street Skills are not so different from this perspective:

• Judging Own Ability
• Judging Speed
• Judging Technique

I relate this to three scenarios, Dirt Track and Road Racing Experience and Years of Dirt. What I mean is as an example, my son wanted to get a street bike, we put him in the dirt first, why? because what translates out of actual experience is knowledge transformed to Street. For instance, your not so inclined to freak if the rear kicks or you feel the front giving, instead your skills kick in and you react. Same as Dirt Track and or Road Time, I think it all translates to proper skills on the street. The Major factor in all of this is not Skill but using the One Brain balanced on your shoulders instead of the two dangling form your groin.

This is simply my opinion, I am a fairly conscientious street rider, ride within my own limits and always take the position the street is not a race track PERIOD. I have not been able to afford any track days for 2 years, so I am not speaking from that, just 30 plus years of riding dirt and street. However I must make a disclaimer, 30 years ago I used my two brains more than I should had :wow :ride

Good Thread

 

[MrMorgue]

Just to echo everyone elses thoughts, I raced for three years and on the street, I'm one of the slowest people I know when riding with my friends along the coast or through the mountains. Not being able to see/know what is around the corner is the biggest issue for me to being able to ride fast, and that is a good thing!

Shawn

 

[HalfEvil]

The more I'm on the track, the less desirable the street is.

Moto on the street is more or less a way to get from point A to B.

Track riding is all about adrenalin, and finding the limit.