Right hand turns

[Charmed]

This is thrice told advice, but track time is a great way to find your bearings in corners. Personally, I had a lot of right hand anxiety (especially downhill...yikes!) for a number of years. One day at Thunderhill, and turns 3, 5b and 14 took the fear right out of me! I carried that confidence into the street and genuinely enjoy right hand turns these days.

 

[sdawgy]

Same with what Charmed said. One track day and my fear was gone. I've had the right-turn anxiety for my past 10 years of riding. Had a lowside on a scooter on the right side and that probably scarred me.

I recently went to Sonoma raceway with my r1 though and it's heavy on right-turns. I also practiced techniques like grabbing the bar so that the orientation of your hand is almost parallel to the handle bar. I'm now more comfortable with right turns than left according to my tire tread

 

[viva_brasil]

Track riding definitely helps neutralize any turning bias.

Blind turns exist everywhere, even on track - it may not warrant a late apex necessarily. Slowing down, finding good visual markers, and then building up speed with the guidance of those markers works well. The vanishing point is a good 'universal' visual marker that can make all of that come together sooner.

 

[flying_hun]

The vanishing point is a good 'universal' visual marker that can make all of that come together sooner.

:thumbup

 

[Lewd_Ferrigno]

If no one has mentioned it, many riders have totally different positions on the left and right turns. It's not uncommon.

I'd play with your body position and, also, use the "power steering" method from California Superbike School. push in on the tank, with the outside leg. Not only does it make the bike turn easier, but it can also be used to adjust the input if you're a bit reticent to turn. It makes things less complictated.

Also, I'm sure this was mentioned but, look where you want to go. People often get absorbed with overcomplicating turns because they are a bit afraid. I found that looking where I wanted to go cured this, in my early racing days. I allowed me to focus on things like points of reference and where I wanted to be mid corner and exit, without adding unwanted steering inputs.

Psychology is the biggest barrier to smooth riding, IMHO, and its often easily overcome.

Ride safe!

 

[Lewd_Ferrigno]

I would also suggest riding the Pace, in the canyons. There's no prize for being fastest to Alice's, but you can become a better rider.

There is a reason the the Code School has a drill in which you can only use 3rd gear and no brakes, when riding around the track. the same lessons can be learned, in the canyons, at a slower pace.

Plus, it's fun.

https://www.motorcyclistonline.com/pace

 

[tzrider]

Your point about riding the pace is a good one.

The purpose of the CSS no brakes drill is not to have rider learn at a slower pace. It is specifically to help riders develop their sense of speed for turn entry.

 

[Lewd_Ferrigno]

Your point about riding the pace is a good one.

The purpose of the CSS no brakes drill is not to have rider learn at a slower pace. It is specifically to help riders develop their sense of speed for turn entry.

I actually didn't say that the drill's reason is to go slow. I thought the drill was meant to get you to not focus so much on the braking, and more on the setup and turn in. What I said was that you can learn the same lessons, at a slower pace on the road vs on the track.

It was more to illustrate why the Pace is a good way to learn motorcycle control, without the pressure to be fast. I believe the pressure to be fast in the canyons is ridiculous, in the first place. No trophy for canyon riding and the downsides far outweigh the upside.

 

[Aware]

All of this. And right-handers are automatically sharper than left-handers if you drive on the right.

Right-handers are my weakness in America.

Left-handers are my weakness in UK.

 

[Lewd_Ferrigno]

All of this. And right-handers are automatically sharper than left-handers if you drive on the right.

Right-handers are my weakness in America.

Left-handers are my weakness in UK.

On a two lane canyon road, the sharpness shouldn’t be that different, if at all.

I think the blind part of it leads you to believe that.

On regular streets, yes.

 

[tzrider]

On a two lane canyon road, the sharpness shouldn’t be that different, if at all.

The radius for a given turn is absolutely different if you're taking it as a right or going the other direction and taking it as a left. I think that's what Aware means by "sharpness."

 

[Lewd_Ferrigno]

The radius for a given turn is absolutely different if you're taking it as a right or going the other direction and taking it as a left. I think that's what Aware means by "sharpness."

I’m talking Canyon road, where there aren’t sharp turns from a stop.

Your radius is set by the double yellow.

The roads are purposely designed for positive camber, as it assists in draining the road. The camber is more positive at the inside of the turn, effectively making the forces acting on the bike hold you in the turn.

Sharp is a perception.

I’ve also ridden on English roads. From a typical 90 degree street turn, the difference can be confusing.

 

[tzrider]

I’ve also ridden on English roads. From a typical 90 degree street turn, the difference can be confusing.

There's nothing confusing about it; it's a geometric certainty. Yes, camber can be a factor, but not all roads are crowned the way you describe.

 

[Lewd_Ferrigno]

There's nothing confusing about it; it's a geometric certainty. Yes, camber can be a factor, but not all roads are crowned the way you describe.

You’re right again, as there are no variables introduced into that geometry. Everything is perfectly linear. Sound logic. As far as camber, sharp turns are way more likely to be positive camber, by design, in the mountains or canyons. It’s basic infrastructure design. What would be the net traffic effect of a negative camber turn on a mountainside?


And your contention is that, after having been taught to ride on one side of the road, your entire life, having to switch to the other side requires no brain training? Solid.

 

[Lewd_Ferrigno]

I’m done. Sick of you jumping on every damn post. Later

 

[Aware]

Look at the image in post #7 above. Imagine what the road looks like when you turn around and come back. That left-hand sweeper is no longer a tight turn, and you have a much easier time seeing around and through the turn. It is easier to take that turn faster from the other direction. And likely with greater lean.

Also

If I fuck up a right-hander by going in too fast, there's a good chance that I'll put myself into a head-on collision. If I do the same on a left-hander, I go into the weeds.

This and the reduced visibility, plus the very high likelyhood of cars pulling gravel into the turn mean that I approach blind right-handers with much more caution than left-handers.

If I can see ahead and through the turn (not a blind corner) then I turn the wick up.

 

[dtrides]

I might add to also read up and practice trail braking on those tight blind corners.
I use this along with late apex approach when riding unfamiliar tight roads with lots of blind corners.
DT

 

[rcgldr]

Either I missed it or it wasn't mentioned. One issue I have with right turns in canyons is if inside of the turn is a solid rock wall or other obstacles, like trees, preventing you from taking the inside line.

 

[flying_hun]

Either I missed it or it wasn't mentioned. One issue I have with right turns in canyons is if inside of the turn is a solid rock wall or other obstacles, like trees, preventing you from taking the inside line.

Like this?

 

[Aware]

Either I missed it or it wasn't mentioned. One issue I have with right turns in canyons is if inside of the turn is a solid rock wall or other obstacles, like trees, preventing you from taking the inside line.

Making it a blind corner with gravel on the 'racing' line. Yeah that slows me down on right handers.