Rider Down on Saratoga Ave

Chato

Priller
Is this the same person we saw, or somebody else? What are they operating on in the surgery?

It could very well be the same accident. Like I said no info in just going by minor details the family provided. Hit the rear of a car around midnight, the times might be off the fact is that he lives off Saratoga and he would be getting off work around 10pm in east San Jose. The accident caused damage in the lungs and a swollen brain he's on a induced coma
 

superhypered

(╯°□°)╯ ლ(ಠ_ಠ ლ)
It could very well be the same accident. Like I said no info in just going by minor details the family provided. Hit the rear of a car around midnight, the times might be off the fact is that he lives off Saratoga and he would be getting off work around 10pm in east San Jose. The accident caused damage in the lungs and a swollen brain he's on a induced coma

Fuck, this was probably him I saw, considering family members won't know what happens immediately when something like this happens, which is why they're saying midnight, so it took about 2-3 hours for them to find out, which was the same case in my dad's accident a year ago. Hopefully he recovers to tell us his tale, best of luck to him to pull through it.
 

Entropy_Slave

Well-known member
The driver involved is a longtime friend and colleague of mine. I told him I'd check here to see if anyone had posted anything about this. He's quite concerned about the status of the rider. I will pass on the info already shared and would appreciate it if the friend(s) of the rider could keep us updated.

I wasn't there and am not here to defend/judge driver or rider, but I do have a few more facts:

1.) He (driver) was making a left turn from a cross-street onto Saratoga at night. He said he didn't see the motorcycle until the last moment before impact. He indicated that there were vehicles approaching from the left but that it appeared he had more than enough time.

2.) The force of the impact rotated his vehicle 90 degrees and caused the front airbag(s) to deploy.

3.) Responding LEO's made statements to the effect that based on the length of the skidmarks they believed the rider was travelling at excessive speed (IIRC Saratoga is posted 40).

I interpret these facts to indicate a tragic but not uncommon scenario of motorcycle's single headlight and small profile not being differentiated from the "background" of the headlights of the vehicles behind it. It seems reasonable to presume that the rider was traveling at least some distance in front of the "pack", and was possibly/probably moving at a higher or excessive speed.

This situation sucks for everyone involved (obviously mostly for the rider). My friend was shaken up pretty bad by the incident, he just returned to work today. He sounded....traumatized... as described the scene of the rider lying there and being unable to render any aid. He said that the emergency responders were not optimistic about the rider's prognosis but heard later over the police radio that he had survived.

As a rider I winced upon hearing how the collision occurred (car pulls out in front of rider), but after thinking about the details I wanted to take a minute to post here so we can remind ourselves, our fellow riders, and non-riders that motorcycles can be hard to see, particularly at night against a background of lights, and to ride and drive accordingly.

Thoughts and prayers with the rider....

-Jason
 

gixxerjeff

Dogs best friend
Well said Jason.
As always, there are three sides to every story....Yours, mine and the truth.
I hope this works out for everyone involved.
 

hophead

Well-known member
The driver involved is a longtime friend and colleague of mine. I told him I'd check here to see if anyone had posted anything about this. He's quite concerned about the status of the rider.

1.) He (driver) was making a left turn from a cross-street onto Saratoga at night. He said he didn't see the motorcycle until the last moment before impact. He indicated that there were vehicles approaching from the left but that it appeared he had more than enough time.

2.) The force of the impact rotated his vehicle 90 degrees and caused the front airbag(s) to deploy.

3.) Responding LEO's made statements to the effect that based on the length of the skidmarks they believed the rider was travelling at excessive speed (IIRC Saratoga is posted 40).

I interpret these facts to indicate a tragic but not uncommon scenario of motorcycle's single headlight and small profile not being differentiated from the "background" of the headlights of the vehicles behind it. It seems reasonable to presume that the rider was traveling at least some distance in front of the "pack", and was possibly/probably moving at a higher or excessive speed.



Thoughts and prayers with the rider....

-Jason

Prayers the rider survives and your friend Jason processes the feelings of remorse and helplessness.......
 

rogerc

Old Guys Rule
Barf is learning.
So nice of everyone to focus on the individuals involved and not starting the blame game.
Best to all involved.
RC
 

Pierre I am

What is life
The driver involved is a longtime friend and colleague of mine. I told him I'd check here to see if anyone had posted anything about this. He's quite concerned about the status of the rider. I will pass on the info already shared and would appreciate it if the friend(s) of the rider could keep us updated.

I wasn't there and am not here to defend/judge driver or rider, but I do have a few more facts:

1.) He (driver) was making a left turn from a cross-street onto Saratoga at night. He said he didn't see the motorcycle until the last moment before impact. He indicated that there were vehicles approaching from the left but that it appeared he had more than enough time.

2.) The force of the impact rotated his vehicle 90 degrees and caused the front airbag(s) to deploy.

3.) Responding LEO's made statements to the effect that based on the length of the skidmarks they believed the rider was travelling at excessive speed (IIRC Saratoga is posted 40).

I interpret these facts to indicate a tragic but not uncommon scenario of motorcycle's single headlight and small profile not being differentiated from the "background" of the headlights of the vehicles behind it. It seems reasonable to presume that the rider was traveling at least some distance in front of the "pack", and was possibly/probably moving at a higher or excessive speed.

This situation sucks for everyone involved (obviously mostly for the rider). My friend was shaken up pretty bad by the incident, he just returned to work today. He sounded....traumatized... as described the scene of the rider lying there and being unable to render any aid. He said that the emergency responders were not optimistic about the rider's prognosis but heard later over the police radio that he had survived.

As a rider I winced upon hearing how the collision occurred (car pulls out in front of rider), but after thinking about the details I wanted to take a minute to post here so we can remind ourselves, our fellow riders, and non-riders that motorcycles can be hard to see, particularly at night against a background of lights, and to ride and drive accordingly.

Thoughts and prayers with the rider....

-Jason

Jason,

I am sorry to hear that your friend / the rider were caught in the wrong place at the wrong time. I hope your friend doesn't take it too harshly seeing how it might not have been completely his fault.

I really hope the best for the rider / driver.
 

Chato

Priller
My sources say he hit the car about 45-50 mph. A fairly new rider and lets remember he was on a Honda 250r, I'm not saying high speeds can't be achieved but have you ridden one? Skid marks don't mean anything but a oh shit moment. The the car being "rotated" 90 degrees by the impact could very well be because the car was already turning in that direction. There are many sides to a story, it is really up to the police investigation to bring us some answers.
I just hope he pulls through and if he remembers tells us his side. I would hate to see another "high rate of speed" label slapped on another motorcycle accident. I am fed up with riders like you me and our friends and family getting cut off by drivers who don't see us. It just seems that is someone doesn't see us we must be speeding and it is time to look for a better excuse.

He wore a black Helmet, if it teaches anyone anything get some high visibility gear, wear it! especially at night I personally have seen a difference.

His condition is still the same, critical but stable. He did breathe on his own a couple of times but also suffered a stroke. The swelling seems to be going down Doctors say if he survives trough tomorrow Tuesday his chances of survival will increase. hoping for the best for all involved, rider his family and the driver.
 

Entropy_Slave

Well-known member
Thank you for the update. Please know that both I and especially the driver feel terrible for what happened. I hope you friend makes a full recovery.

I apologize if my comments appeared to be casting blame on your friend. Even supposing it were entirely his fault, I wouldn't want anyone I know to go through what he, his friends, and his family are.

Again, I was just passing on some facts that I learned to inform, and hopefully use the incident to remind anyone reading this that as Enchanter taught me years ago in the CMSP, [on a bike] "You can be totally right but still end up dead". Certain actions can reduce the risk of injury/death and certain actions can increase it:

1.) My friend looked but did not see the rider approaching. As riders we lash out at the "I just didn't see him/her" explanation as if it's some kind of excuse, but the sad fact is that it can be true. Whether through inattentive driving or the fact that motorcycles can be difficult to detect, particularly at night with traffic around.

I know I've been surprised more than once to realize the lights I was looking at were actually that of a bike with a car or cars behind it....and I'm a rider.... I watch for bikes.

2.) The impact was severe, evident by the injuries to the rider and the damage to the car. The bike struck the left rear quarter and yet the front airbag(s) deployed. The responding LEOs made comments to the effect based on the *short* length of the skid marks that the bike was likely traveling at excessive speed. I'm not trying to blame the rider, but I'm also not going to ignore just because someone got severely injured that it's possible or even probable that he increased the likelihood of a collision through his actions.

When my friend started his story with "I was making a left turn..." my stomach churned and I felt angry.... but then I listened to and thought through the story and put together what made the most sense to me, and intended only to offer that information up to the other readers here.

Praying your friend recovers

-Jason


My sources say he hit the car about 45-50 mph. A fairly new rider and lets remember he was on a Honda 250r, I'm not saying high speeds can't be achieved but have you ridden one? Skid marks don't mean anything but a oh shit moment. The the car being "rotated" 90 degrees by the impact could very well be because the car was already turning in that direction. There are many sides to a story, it is really up to the police investigation to bring us some answers.
I just hope he pulls through and if he remembers tells us his side. I would hate to see another "high rate of speed" label slapped on another motorcycle accident. I am fed up with riders like you me and our friends and family getting cut off by drivers who don't see us. It just seems that is someone doesn't see us we must be speeding and it is time to look for a better excuse.

He wore a black Helmet, if it teaches anyone anything get some high visibility gear, wear it! especially at night I personally have seen a difference.

His condition is still the same, critical but stable. He did breathe on his own a couple of times but also suffered a stroke. The swelling seems to be going down Doctors say if he survives trough tomorrow Tuesday his chances of survival will increase. hoping for the best for all involved, rider his family and the driver.
 

superhypered

(╯°□°)╯ ლ(ಠ_ಠ ლ)
Thank you for the update. Please know that both I and especially the driver feel terrible for what happened. I hope you friend makes a full recovery.

I apologize if my comments appeared to be casting blame on your friend. Even supposing it were entirely his fault, I wouldn't want anyone I know to go through what he, his friends, and his family are.

Again, I was just passing on some facts that I learned to inform, and hopefully use the incident to remind anyone reading this that as Enchanter taught me years ago in the CMSP, [on a bike] "You can be totally right but still end up dead". Certain actions can reduce the risk of injury/death and certain actions can increase it:

1.) My friend looked but did not see the rider approaching. As riders we lash out at the "I just didn't see him/her" explanation as if it's some kind of excuse, but the sad fact is that it can be true. Whether through inattentive driving or the fact that motorcycles can be difficult to detect, particularly at night with traffic around.

I know I've been surprised more than once to realize the lights I was looking at were actually that of a bike with a car or cars behind it....and I'm a rider.... I watch for bikes.

2.) The impact was severe, evident by the injuries to the rider and the damage to the car. The bike struck the left rear quarter and yet the front airbag(s) deployed. The responding LEOs made comments to the effect based on the *short* length of the skid marks that the bike was likely traveling at excessive speed. I'm not trying to blame the rider, but I'm also not going to ignore just because someone got severely injured that it's possible or even probable that he increased the likelihood of a collision through his actions.

When my friend started his story with "I was making a left turn..." my stomach churned and I felt angry.... but then I listened to and thought through the story and put together what made the most sense to me, and intended only to offer that information up to the other readers here.

Praying your friend recovers

-Jason

Since this hasn't been brought up yet, but for anyone only reading through this and not commenting that are against the driver not being able to see the rider, I can personally say this is a difficult road at night to begin with, even with favoring conditions. If not this portion of Saratoga Rd by Strawberry Park Dr, I do see that the city has begun replacing the standard yellow lights with LED white lights. For myself, this makes it much harder to see single headlights from a motorcycle, so I think it is understandable from the driver's position.

Also, the driver was in motion when he was hit, as he got rotated 90 degrees and landed in the #1 lane Northbound on Saratoga Ave

As others have said, we will need to hear the rider's side of the story to get the whole picture.

Chato, please update us tonight or in the morning with his current condition
 

Chato

Priller
For sure, I will keep posting updates.

I'm am a motorcyclist too and always look out for bikes somehow I spot them fairly easily even in the rear view mirror. Headlight jumps around while shifting, bikes move different around traffic, there is no car with three headlights etc. I don't expect all the drivers to be looking out for bikes but I still believe " I didn't see him he must've been going fast" is a sorry ass excuse. Apparently he was ahead of traffic which would have made it easier to differentiate between the bike and the traffic behind since the headlight is not blending in with headlights next to his. He just got the bad luck of hitting the car where his body could not go any where but into it. Maybe a foot more to the tail of the car and his body would have flown over the trunk but everything happens for a reason.
You have no idea how many drivers try to cut me off trying to beat me at intersections, even after they make eye contact with me. They see a wave of cars and their first thought is to beat it so that they don't wait the extra 2-3 minutes it would take to clear. This actions limit the range of incoming traffic they are looking out for, unfortunately pedestrians bicyclist and motorcyclist get the short end of the stick.

Short skid could very well mean he just got cut off at when he was very close to the car which is not relevant to speed. We as riders do not dictate when we get cut off, I only wish he would have been aware of his danger sooner and move lanes or attempt to stop way before creating a longer skid mark and getting a better speed grade in the police report.
Yes impact was severe as any impact from 40-50 mph to a dead stop would be. Ive seen cars roll and tumble and not deploy airbags, and I've seen cars hit a curb and deploy all air bags including side bags. How do we know the car didn't hit the divider, if there is one, after the impact?. There could be other factors neither you or me will know.
All we can do is wait for the other side of the story that I very much hope he can tell us. It is probable that only one of the parties involved could be at fault as well as both parties being equally responsible, but I am not going to defend or believe any statements made by only one of the parties. I am only going off by the fact provided by the driver, he did not see the bike, as for the reasons why that happened there could be many.. :ride safe
 
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