Representing the community

[berth]

I don't want to be a jerk. I don't want to hoist a flag over a recent tragedy.

But there was a single vehicle accident recently that got a thread here. One of the comments was, lightly elided:

[The rider] was a great benefit to the riding community and always an advocate for safety. [The rider] was a real positive for moto riders everywhere and will be missed.

Also in the thread was a video of some of the riding done. The rider was, clearly, breaking the local speed limits. Riding very fast in to corners. One corner is marked as a 30MPH warning, the speedometer on the bike indicated 60-65. On top of that, their riding partner was clearly going even faster (the other rider left the videographer quickly behind).

The road was not quiet, you can see them flying by on coming cars.

In the end, mishap befell the rider, whether mechanical, environmental, or simply physiological, causing the rider to crash.

And all those cars driving by that see this on the road. Perhaps heard about the crash. Some, no doubt, pointing fingers. "See!"

So, how does this help the larger riding community? How is this any different than rev bombing while lane splitting, or doing wheelies on a dirt bike on the street?

Simply, what we do, rightly or wrongly, reflects on all of us.

Anyway, let's be careful out there.

 

[Karbon]

It doesn't help. it actually makes us look more hypocritical and unreasonable. To the general public you can't blare on about safety and being reasonable when you're doin 2X +10 mph on public roads. People will invariably call you on your BS.

I mean you know...just stating the obv.

Until 2 wheels are seen as a legitimate form of transport by the majority of motor vehicle operators, motorcyclist will always been seen as risk-taking asshats to the general public. If we're not meth dealing 3 patch biker trash, we're Ricky racers wadding ourselves in public.

 

[ratsblast]

I totally agree, riding a dangerous road in SoCal at 70-80 miles an hour is not being safe and if you stuff it and die it is your own fault. I noticed the hypocracy but didnt want to say anything. I have riden some of the roads down there, two lane twisties where if you fuck up the probability of death or serious injury are very high.

 

[ontherearwheel]

Just thinking bout this......I mean think of the bad imagine for car drivers from the car that drove right off the cliff...full of kids.....on purpose.

Man, as a car driver, that's just not representing the driving community in a good way.

Geez, the nerve of some people......

 

[bpw]

Just thinking bout this......I mean think of the bad imagine for car drivers from the car that drove right off the cliff...full of kids.....on purpose.

Man, as a car driver, that's just not representing the driving community in a good way.

Geez, the nerve of some people......

Since everyone pretty much drives, one person isn't considered and example of all drivers. Moto riders being a smaller group we often get lumped together, it's not fair but that is how peoples brains work.

That said, I bet someone is trash talking lesbian parents adopting children right now as a result of that crash.

 

[zelig]

"affect heuristic"

The Science Behind Your Hatred of Cyclists.

The affect heuristic explains how our minds take a difficult question (one that would require rigorous logic to answer) and substitutes it for an easier one. When our emotions get involved, we jump to pre-existing conclusions instead of exerting the mental effort to think of a bespoke answer. The affect heuristic helps explain why birthers still exist even though Obama released his birth certificate—it’s a powerful, negative emotional issue about which lots of people have already made up their minds. When it comes to cyclists, once some clown on two wheels almost kills himself with your car, you furiously decide that bicyclists are assholes, and that conclusion will be hard to shake regardless of countervailing facts, stats, or arguments.

 

[Hank Wong]

Now you guys are talking like you're a minority.

 

[budman]

I get what your saying. I don’t mean to be a jerk either.

That said it could have been me. I accept that.

I love to ride and choose my spots to wick it up a bit. I have been known to go a few miles above the speed limit.

I work on safety efforts. I believe in them. I also believe there are places where a few MPH over are not so much in the public eye is not that big of a deal....and that is where it is OK by me and I don’t want to be “a hypocrite unto myself”.

Expecting a rider to always be applying the law is unrealistic. I wheelie over cattle guards at times. I pass over the DY at times because it really is safe and the laws were developed for cages.

All good all the time?? I get it, but I personally don’t live by that and being honest about it matters to me.

Shame on those that do that. :rant
Shame on those that die and can be shown to not have done that. :rant
Shame on those that go 66 mph on our highways and complain about others not abiding. :blah

Choose a good spot for your enthusiasm and live with any repercussions is where I reside.

 

[jaybocc2]

I get what your saying.

That said it could be me. I love to ride and choose my spots,m to wick it up a bit. I have been known to go a few miles above the speed limit.

I work on safety efforts. I believe in them. I also believe there are places where a few MPH over are not so much in the public eye is not that big of a deal....and that is where it is OK by me and I don’t want to be “a hypocrite unto myself”.

Expecting a rider to always be applying the law is unrealistic. I wheelie over cattle guards at times. I pass over the DY at times because it really is safe and the laws were developed for cages.

All good all the time?? I get it, but I personally don’t live by that and being honest about it matters to me.

Shame on those that do that. :rant
Shame on those that die and can be shown to not have done that. :rant
Shame on those that go 66 mph on our highways and complain about others not abiding. :blah

Choose a good spot for your enthusiasm and live with any repercussions is where I reside.

I completely agree with you Budman.

I am guilty, but i try not to be an outrageous dick. That said, i'm also a "victim" of the "well he was probably speeding/being reckless/stupid sportbiker/etc so we won't even consider that this witness is lying and almost killed this unconscious and severely injured rider."

We stigmatize ourselves sometimes, even when we don't mean to be hoonigans. And collectively over time we pay that price.

Sometimes with tickets. Sometimes with injury. Sometimes with our lives. Lost lots of friend and riders i know to various types of situations.

RIP the rider. Hopefully some of their followers think about their own skills and the time and place for getting their jollies.

Personally I have removed myself from the street riding community as i don't feel "safe" or comfortable enough anymore around cagers and other hard objects :afm199 :afm199

 

[rsrider]

Hall Monitors of the Road. It's my new documentary on the people who believe that public roads mean public enforcement of traffic laws, even if they have to break the law to make you comply. I'm hoping to get funded by the Get Off My Lawn Society and the Vigilantes for Order and Obedience.

 

[Lonster]

Point taken.
But the REAL crime, here, is the, blatant, and obsessive, use of comas.

 

[orbframe]

Point taken.
But the REAL crime, here, is the, blatant, and obsessive, use of comas.

Your commas have put me in a coma.

 

[mlm]

I would so like to be a good example.


But a mans gotta know his limitations. The Ducati doesn’t help

 

[bigpoppa]

Hall Monitors of the Road. It's my new documentary on the people who believe that public roads mean public enforcement of traffic laws, even if they have to break the law to make you comply. I'm hoping to get funded by the Get Off My Lawn Society and the Vigilantes for Order and Obedience.

:rofl

 

[DucatiHoney]

Simply, what we do, rightly or wrongly, reflects on all of us.

Who's deciding what's "right" or "wrong" here? So she was going 20+ the limit. OK, that's wrong. What about 1+? There were lots of other cars on the road--K. So what if there was just one other car? The mentality can be a slippery slope. I get what you're saying, but we've all broken rules--on the bike and off. Anything can be used against a person by another who has the motivation to justify their position. This woman could have been a saint on every other day but this one in every sense. She could have been on her way to save a baby from a burning bus for all we know. There are going to be people out there who berate all of us riders based on the flimsiest excuse they can find. People with axes to grind and time on their hands tend to do that. Doing things that cause or has the potential to cause harm to one's self or others should be avoided, but don't live to try to please others: it's a lost cause.

 

[rudolfs001]

Fact of the matter is that speed limits are designed for grannies in old Buicks and big trucks, and even so are often artificially low for the conditions.

It's like back in grade school, some people could multiply in their head, but had to show the work anyway, even though their abilities were beyond it. It's a bit silly to hold every to the same low standard, when abilities and machines differ. There are many many corners where you can comfortably and safely go 2x the recommended turn speed on a capable bike. Could a big truck loaded to max capacity? No. Could an 80 year old on 10 different meds? No. The speed limits are set for them.

When you ride, and when you ride fast, you take your life in your own hands. It is your responsibility to understand your skill, the machine's capabilities, and the road conditions. Some people are more capable than others. The incapable don't like to be reminded of that and try to tear them down, because "If I can't go around that corner 5 mph above the recommendation, no one can!"

 

[orbframe]

Fact of the matter is that speed limits are designed for grannies in old Buicks and big trucks, and even so are often artificially low for the conditions.

It's like back in grade school, some people could multiply in their head, but had to show the work anyway, even though their abilities were beyond it. It's a bit silly to hold every to the same low standard, when abilities and machines differ. There are many many corners where you can comfortably and safely go 2x the recommended turn speed on a capable bike. Could a big truck loaded to max capacity? No. Could an 80 year old on 10 different meds? No. The speed limits are set for them.

When you ride, and when you ride fast, you take your life in your own hands. It is your responsibility to understand your skill, the machine's capabilities, and the road conditions. Some people are more capable than others. The incapable don't like to be reminded of that and try to tear them down, because "If I can't go around that corner 5 mph above the recommendation, no one can!"

except that you're piloting a potential weapon/missile/hunk of metal that can also kill someone else who otherwise was driving or walking down the road.

 

[rsrider]

except that you're piloting a potential weapon/missile/hunk of metal that can also kill someone else who otherwise was driving or walking down the road.

Like every other vehicle on the road. 40K vehicle deaths, 6K pedestrian deaths, 800 bicycle deaths related bicycle vs. vehicle. Data for 2017

How many of those can be attributed to MCs? Data for 2015

https://www.ghsa.org/sites/default/files/2017-01/Spotlight Motorcycle 2016 H.pdf

We are a dangerous lot............

 

[rudolfs001]

except that you're piloting a potential weapon/missile/hunk of metal that can also kill someone else who otherwise was driving or walking down the road.

If you want to go down that road, then the much more fruitful direction is to address heavy duty truckers who are routinely driving while tired. Their weapon/missle/hunks of metal are MUCH more destructive, by several orders of magnitude, and they're overworked and tired. Bike riders tend to be focused and awake when going quickly.

 

[jaybocc2]

If you want to go down that road, then the much more fruitful direction is to address heavy duty truckers who are routinely driving while tired. Their weapon/missle/hunks of metal are MUCH more destructive, by several orders of magnitude, and they're overworked and tired. Bike riders tend to be focused and awake when going quickly.

Truck drivers are heavily regulated, unlike moto riders, for exactly that reason.

And as everything is becoming more and more digitized, it is approaching near impossible to fake your sleep/drive logs.

The days of forged logs are rapidly going away. My pops was a trucker for 35 years, and yes he drove tired a lot, and in the old days even forged his book, but nowdays, he can't even go above 65 or the ECU will snitch on him to his boss. Heck they know if he stopped somewhere off-route for more than 10 minutes. And that was 10 years ago.

It does nothing to help our cause to try and deflect "but trucks are moar dangerous!!!!!"