re: new riders & 600's. kinda long
- Thread starter Karbon
- Start date
Underdog
Prehistoric
Never. Do you have a problem with that? :thumbup
rodr
Well-known member
Not such a foolish idea. I had some riding experience when young, but was away from it over 30 years before finally taking the MSF and buying a used Burgman 400 two years ago. Had that for 10 months and then graduated to a "real" motorcycle. This worked well for me.
Tim-That CX Guy
Resident Window Licker
Back in 1987, the very first bike I ever owned was a Honda CB750K.
It was too big, too heavy, and everyone I talked to said I was an idiot and would probably kill myself on it.
Went through the MSF course (back in the days where they didn't give you a license if you passed), and sold the f***ing thing before I ever rode it, because I realized that everyone was right.
Picked up a nice '82 Suzuki GS450T, rode that for about a year getting the fundamentals down (crashed it once. . . thankfully it was also a really cheap bike to fix!) before I finally got sideswiped and the insurance settlement upgraded me to an '80 Suzuki GS1000E.
After a year, I figured that was ready to take on more power.
Similar principles apply today.
Yes, you could learn how to drive a stick shift in a corvette. But why wouldn't you want to f*** up a Chevette for a while first?
It was too big, too heavy, and everyone I talked to said I was an idiot and would probably kill myself on it.
Went through the MSF course (back in the days where they didn't give you a license if you passed), and sold the f***ing thing before I ever rode it, because I realized that everyone was right.
Picked up a nice '82 Suzuki GS450T, rode that for about a year getting the fundamentals down (crashed it once. . . thankfully it was also a really cheap bike to fix!) before I finally got sideswiped and the insurance settlement upgraded me to an '80 Suzuki GS1000E.
After a year, I figured that was ready to take on more power.
Similar principles apply today.
Yes, you could learn how to drive a stick shift in a corvette. But why wouldn't you want to f*** up a Chevette for a while first?
ROLLiN8THs
Active member
... i just bought a 600cc.. yikes!
i have to admit ive been practicing on a 50cc 2stroke aprilla and just picked up a r6 today and its totally different (should of practice a bit more imo)! i do highly recommend new riders to listen to the original poster.
i have to admit ive been practicing on a 50cc 2stroke aprilla and just picked up a r6 today and its totally different (should of practice a bit more imo)! i do highly recommend new riders to listen to the original poster.
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FromDabay510
Well-known member
I took the msf course rode a 250..I have a 2001 gsxr600 learning on it...I should of started out on a 250 but hey just gotta practice before heading out to the twisties maybe in a couple more months..I dont wanna get over confident
sliverstorm
Well-known member
One thing I would point out, if it hasn't been said already, is that older 600's are much less crazy. I started on a 600, but it was a piece of crapola from the mid 80's, and made somewhere between 60 and 70 crank hp. It was still the fastest thing I'd ever been on, but it was never too much bike. The one time I screwed up, speed was the absolute least of my problems.
crick
Doodler
here's my two cents.
Right after MSF training, i went out and got a GSX F 600, my buddy got a cbr 600.
THough the gsxF is not geared like the CBR, it still hits its high performance in the higher revs, creating a nice surprise acceleration. I was not used to that and it scared the shit out of me when i noticed i'm going 60 mph and all of a sudden, i'm at 90 and didnt notice it.
I've had a ton of close calls with this bike because i didnt know how to handle it well. It was ~80 lbs heavier than the cbr.
my buddy's cbr600 he crashed twice because both times he didnt realize how fast he was going into a turn. A 15mph turn he tried to take at 50 thinking he was going 20.
and the final say is my sister's boyfriends brother, on a GSXR, who underbroke because of fear of locking up the tires, hit an SUV. he was only 18. *sniffles*
I have no problems with 600's or 800's of any other class motorcycles... it's the sport and super sport that people have to be real sensitive with. Those bikes accelerate fast, have huge amounts of torque and power at different revs cycles, and sensitive brakes due to the nature of the beast.
I've seen guys who hit the front brake too hard and locked it up, cauzing them to flip over. I've seen guys who lock up the rear and LET go of the rear brake and it just careens them across the pavement.
I'VE SEEN GUYS WEAR T-SHIRTS SHORTS and SNEAKERS on a GSXR, kareening down the freeway at 110mph. W-T-F
better yet, a gearless guy with his gearless g/f on pillion. :O
anyways, i think the OP meant it best towards 600's of the sport nature, because 600's in the dualsport and city bikes behave a lot differently and more predictable than much of hte 600 sportbikes.
Currently, i swapped out my bike for an 800cc. SHe handles a TON differently than the gsx i had... and a lot more predictable and manageable. Definitely not as crazy even though its 200cc's more.
Right after MSF training, i went out and got a GSX F 600, my buddy got a cbr 600.
THough the gsxF is not geared like the CBR, it still hits its high performance in the higher revs, creating a nice surprise acceleration. I was not used to that and it scared the shit out of me when i noticed i'm going 60 mph and all of a sudden, i'm at 90 and didnt notice it.
I've had a ton of close calls with this bike because i didnt know how to handle it well. It was ~80 lbs heavier than the cbr.
my buddy's cbr600 he crashed twice because both times he didnt realize how fast he was going into a turn. A 15mph turn he tried to take at 50 thinking he was going 20.
and the final say is my sister's boyfriends brother, on a GSXR, who underbroke because of fear of locking up the tires, hit an SUV. he was only 18. *sniffles*
I have no problems with 600's or 800's of any other class motorcycles... it's the sport and super sport that people have to be real sensitive with. Those bikes accelerate fast, have huge amounts of torque and power at different revs cycles, and sensitive brakes due to the nature of the beast.
I've seen guys who hit the front brake too hard and locked it up, cauzing them to flip over. I've seen guys who lock up the rear and LET go of the rear brake and it just careens them across the pavement.
I'VE SEEN GUYS WEAR T-SHIRTS SHORTS and SNEAKERS on a GSXR, kareening down the freeway at 110mph. W-T-F
better yet, a gearless guy with his gearless g/f on pillion. :O
anyways, i think the OP meant it best towards 600's of the sport nature, because 600's in the dualsport and city bikes behave a lot differently and more predictable than much of hte 600 sportbikes.
Currently, i swapped out my bike for an 800cc. SHe handles a TON differently than the gsx i had... and a lot more predictable and manageable. Definitely not as crazy even though its 200cc's more.
the donald
Well-known member
forgive me i am not as verbally blessed as some.
i have been riding for 2 weeks. i bought a 03 gsxr 600. and through riding it i see everything you guys are talking about in it not being a beginner friendly bike. the first couple days i was stalling the shit out of the bike, then i learned how little power it has until 4k rpms. i avoid busy roads, and did alot of time in our mall parking lot at 9am. i practice my braking, accelerating, and cornering. i still stall it every now and then when trying to get a beatiful sounding takeoff, not a high-speed launch, the low speed launch where you give it almost no gas.
i did look at the smaller bikes, but being 6'5 320lbs, a 250cc would not have the power to get me up to speed, shit i couldn't even fit on my bro-in-law's. same with the supermoto's.
i am rspecting this as a death machine, on backroads and parking lots i am working on throttle control and mostly maintaining a smooth speed and guessing my speed accuratly. in the parking lot i was getting up to 60mph and brakinig front brake only, rear brake only, and both at the same time. i am doing my best to learn what the bike is capable of, and how it reactsto my massive body weight in situations.
though one advantage i have over most very basic beginnrs is how i drive my car. i drive like everyone wants to kill me i am aware of everyhing around me, including the people behind me.
i have been riding for 2 weeks. i bought a 03 gsxr 600. and through riding it i see everything you guys are talking about in it not being a beginner friendly bike. the first couple days i was stalling the shit out of the bike, then i learned how little power it has until 4k rpms. i avoid busy roads, and did alot of time in our mall parking lot at 9am. i practice my braking, accelerating, and cornering. i still stall it every now and then when trying to get a beatiful sounding takeoff, not a high-speed launch, the low speed launch where you give it almost no gas.
i did look at the smaller bikes, but being 6'5 320lbs, a 250cc would not have the power to get me up to speed, shit i couldn't even fit on my bro-in-law's. same with the supermoto's.
i am rspecting this as a death machine, on backroads and parking lots i am working on throttle control and mostly maintaining a smooth speed and guessing my speed accuratly. in the parking lot i was getting up to 60mph and brakinig front brake only, rear brake only, and both at the same time. i am doing my best to learn what the bike is capable of, and how it reactsto my massive body weight in situations.
though one advantage i have over most very basic beginnrs is how i drive my car. i drive like everyone wants to kill me i am aware of everyhing around me, including the people behind me.
MR. Awesome-Sau
Humble
Folks.
I'm bang in the middle of my MSF right now, obviously been thinking a LOT about my first bike/lover.
Super grateful for this thread, some great info!
I'm also a big dude, 6'3'' coming in at 330lbs, and been thinking a lot about what level of bike is most appropriate with my experience considering my weight.
Anyways. Great fracking thread.
I'm bang in the middle of my MSF right now, obviously been thinking a LOT about my first bike/lover.
Super grateful for this thread, some great info!
I'm also a big dude, 6'3'' coming in at 330lbs, and been thinking a lot about what level of bike is most appropriate with my experience considering my weight.
Anyways. Great fracking thread.
FromDabay510
Well-known member
get a 600cc be a man
TommyWillB
Well-known member
My Shadow hasn't been a problem as a first bike. But I'm middle-aged, and it's a mid-80's cruiser. So we're both old-n-slow. So I probably don't ride it anywhere near as hard as an 18 year old on a 250.
This is a great thread, and I like how several posters have been bringing up the part about there being more than engine displacement as part of the equation. It's an important thing to bring up because many newbies don't really understand the interplay between engine power and torque, gear ratios, suspension, frame design, riding position, etc.
I'm an idiot newbie, but I'm also a dork that spends lots of time reading forums like this, already understands the basics of an internal combustion engine, etc. That doesn't make me a good rider, but it makes me at least slightly educated. A lot of people don't know anything but "This ones goes faster when I twist", and they get simplified advice like "A 250 or maybe a 500 is a good starter bike, a 600 or 750 isn't." Is there really that much difference between 500 and 600 cubic centimeters? A 20-year old standard is going to be a much more forgiving mistress than a modern sport given equal displacements, and even a 250cc street bike provides more than enough power needed to become a permanent part of a tree or a splatter on someone's windshield if you ride like an idiot.
So it's good to see people bringing up things like the fact that a GS and a GSXR are not the same bike, because I think a lot of new riders get either too scared or too overconfident of the "safety" of their bike based on one factor - engine size. Not to say that any of the points made about the relative difficulty of small versus large are invalid, just that there are other factors as well and they should all be considered when buying a first bike.
I see the same kind of thing with people buying digital cameras with no background in photography. "OMG my new camera has 32 megapixels! SOOOO much better than that 24 megapixel one." Sure, if you are taking photos primarily to put on billboards or the sides of buses. Fact is either one is more than enough and people shouldn't ignore the other features of the camera in determining the experience they should have with it. But people want megapixels so now we have craptastic point and shoots with insane resolution - that take really, really, really, big terrible photos.
Also, I'd like to echo the poster who said a scooter isn't a bad first bike. I'm still far from being a good rider, but I can tell you that 25 years of driving manual transmission sports cars and 15 years of riding scooters gave me a little leg up on the basics of riding compared to other newbies who had neither. A 150cc+ scooter has plenty of zip with an average weight rider, can have better low speed maneuverability in city traffic than a motorcycle, and gives the rider important experience in such critical areas as "everyone in an SUV is a moron, won't see you and won't care about running you off the road even if they do."
And even a scooter has plenty enough power to make you a permanent road fixture if you really like it that way.
I'm an idiot newbie, but I'm also a dork that spends lots of time reading forums like this, already understands the basics of an internal combustion engine, etc. That doesn't make me a good rider, but it makes me at least slightly educated. A lot of people don't know anything but "This ones goes faster when I twist", and they get simplified advice like "A 250 or maybe a 500 is a good starter bike, a 600 or 750 isn't." Is there really that much difference between 500 and 600 cubic centimeters? A 20-year old standard is going to be a much more forgiving mistress than a modern sport given equal displacements, and even a 250cc street bike provides more than enough power needed to become a permanent part of a tree or a splatter on someone's windshield if you ride like an idiot.
So it's good to see people bringing up things like the fact that a GS and a GSXR are not the same bike, because I think a lot of new riders get either too scared or too overconfident of the "safety" of their bike based on one factor - engine size. Not to say that any of the points made about the relative difficulty of small versus large are invalid, just that there are other factors as well and they should all be considered when buying a first bike.
I see the same kind of thing with people buying digital cameras with no background in photography. "OMG my new camera has 32 megapixels! SOOOO much better than that 24 megapixel one." Sure, if you are taking photos primarily to put on billboards or the sides of buses. Fact is either one is more than enough and people shouldn't ignore the other features of the camera in determining the experience they should have with it. But people want megapixels so now we have craptastic point and shoots with insane resolution - that take really, really, really, big terrible photos.
Also, I'd like to echo the poster who said a scooter isn't a bad first bike. I'm still far from being a good rider, but I can tell you that 25 years of driving manual transmission sports cars and 15 years of riding scooters gave me a little leg up on the basics of riding compared to other newbies who had neither. A 150cc+ scooter has plenty of zip with an average weight rider, can have better low speed maneuverability in city traffic than a motorcycle, and gives the rider important experience in such critical areas as "everyone in an SUV is a moron, won't see you and won't care about running you off the road even if they do."
And even a scooter has plenty enough power to make you a permanent road fixture if you really like it that way.
mathydoode
Well-known member
Well I wanted a 600 at first, and I must admit I'm guilty to thinking I was level headed and skilled enough after I spent a couple days riding a moto. But instead, someone recommended I get a 650cc (which at first puzzled me because I thought "more cc, more dangerous") until I later learned that there are other considerations when talking about the performance aspects of a bike. Til this day I love the 650r and I must say it does seem to be a "learner friendly" ride.
And I must agree that manufacturers will sell more if they make more models look like modern streetbikes (aggressive, sleek look) instead of making them look old and not so sporty. As you can see, kawasaki's 250r is always sold and resold amongst the beginner rider. i wouldve bought one too, but the size of the big really cramped up my 6' 4" body. had other manufacturers made other 250cc or 500cc bikes more sporty, i probably wouldve bought one of those and learned on it.
but, like i said, the 650r is also a very nice learners bike. (AT LEAST SO FAR, *knock on wood HAHA)
And I must agree that manufacturers will sell more if they make more models look like modern streetbikes (aggressive, sleek look) instead of making them look old and not so sporty. As you can see, kawasaki's 250r is always sold and resold amongst the beginner rider. i wouldve bought one too, but the size of the big really cramped up my 6' 4" body. had other manufacturers made other 250cc or 500cc bikes more sporty, i probably wouldve bought one of those and learned on it.
but, like i said, the 650r is also a very nice learners bike. (AT LEAST SO FAR, *knock on wood HAHA)
Hi this is my first (real) post. I read this whole thread just now. Basically, I'm new to motorcycles, and I was GIVEN a 1990 600cc ninja. So I guess I'm going to ride that. I'm a big guy 6'3", 235, and it's an older bike. I took the MSF course. I'm a safe type of person. I've been riding a bicycle in traffic for my whole life, which is not to say that I think the skills learned biking will translate to riding, but I am accustomed to being vulnerable on the street. After reading this thread I think I'm probably not riding the ideal first bike. But I'm still going to ride it.
Any tips? Things to watch out for? Or is it just a "feel" thing, that I won't understand until I've ridden for a while? What is this "power band" thing, and how is that different on a smaller bike? I understand that the throttle and clutch control is probably the main issue with new riders, is that pretty much it? I like to keep it simple, so I'm heading out with "don't crash" and working from there.
thanks
Any tips? Things to watch out for? Or is it just a "feel" thing, that I won't understand until I've ridden for a while? What is this "power band" thing, and how is that different on a smaller bike? I understand that the throttle and clutch control is probably the main issue with new riders, is that pretty much it? I like to keep it simple, so I'm heading out with "don't crash" and working from there.
thanks
JakesKTM
Well-known member
That isn't definitive qualification.
my .02 = rider responsibility dictates the outcome, not engine size or class of bike.
Pushing people to purchase a bike they will surely outgrow is not our responsibility.
I'm a veteran rider and would encourage a bike that is reasonable to own, operate, and live with, because that is more important IMO.
Underdog
Prehistoric
I suggest you pause for a moment and get a modern 250. Even if only for your first 6 months.
It's not the 600 people are warning against. It's about 70hp, comparable to the SV650 that people here often recommend for new riders.
I think the riding position is pretty leaned forward for street riding, but plenty of people disagree. And that can be changed, if you want.
Imagine someone saying, "I want to learn to juggle, but I'm going to start by learning with chainsaws. But don't worry. I intend to go slow, be careful, stay level-headed, and respect the power of the chainsaws while I'm learning". Like the high-wire example, the proper route here isn't hard to see. Be "careful" all you want, go as "slow" as you want, be as "cautious" as you want, be as "respectful" as you want...your still juggling chainsaws
Big chainsaw, small chainsaw. Still a chainsaw. Might as well put on a good show.
Big chainsaw, small chainsaw. Still a chainsaw. Might as well put on a good show.