re: new riders & 600's. kinda long
- Thread starter Karbon
- Start date
flying_hun
Adverse Selection
:laughing
11B
Infantry, Army, 1991-2004
100% agree with the 1st post. Definitely start with a smaller bike to gain experience, then move up. Even an EX500 does 0-60 in about 3.7 seconds with a top speed over 130 mph. Unless your a BIG person you don't need a larger bike as a starter.
That argument doesn't work for me. What happens when people driving tin cans with 4 wheels force you to exceed your current comfort/skill level on a bigger bike, or when an unforseen road hazard/condition appears?
The real kicker is new 600s are actually lighter and brake faster than most older bikes but that also means a new rider can get themselves into a lot more trouble. I.E., brake and throttle applications have more power therefore a higher precision of skill is required to operate them. Any jerky movements, whether it be grabbing the front brake or over twisting the throttle will be potentially much more hazardous.
I started in 1995 with a GS 450 Suzuki, 2nd bike Triumph Trident, 3rd Bike Yamaha yzf 600 R, and just now, am saving up for a used 05/06 600 RR, GSXR, or 6R.
That argument doesn't work for me. What happens when people driving tin cans with 4 wheels force you to exceed your current comfort/skill level on a bigger bike, or when an unforseen road hazard/condition appears?
The real kicker is new 600s are actually lighter and brake faster than most older bikes but that also means a new rider can get themselves into a lot more trouble. I.E., brake and throttle applications have more power therefore a higher precision of skill is required to operate them. Any jerky movements, whether it be grabbing the front brake or over twisting the throttle will be potentially much more hazardous.
I started in 1995 with a GS 450 Suzuki, 2nd bike Triumph Trident, 3rd Bike Yamaha yzf 600 R, and just now, am saving up for a used 05/06 600 RR, GSXR, or 6R.
Tree
Well-known member
I read the article, found it interesting but just as mentioned in the above post I'm kinda big at 6'5" so pretty much all 250's and 500's are out of the question. The bike I'm leaning towards the most is the FZ6, sat on one and it was a lot more comfy compared to the other bikes I've checked out. Also have a decent amount of experience on a dirt bike, and as I understand it the Fz6 engine is quite a bit more tame than the R6 powerplant.
Squidly McSmearstain
Well-known member
For me, the idea is that a liter bike has power everywhere. You twist the throttle and even at low RPM the bike just launches. When the revs hit the powerband on a liter bike I4 it goes from HOLY SHIT speed to LUDICROUS SPEED. However, the feeling of immense power and extraordinary potential are always present.
On a 600 (especially the R6), the down low power delivery is pretty soft. You twist the throttle and the bike moves forward with a nice jump, but nothing alarming. It's like playing with an eager puppy. It's willing and able and feels so solid you get a sense of complete comfort and total control. Then, BAM, that little motor hits the power band and completely changes character. Suddenly, well over 100 horses are being transmitted to the rear wheel and the eager little puppy has transformed into a very angry and hungry pit bull that just got a whiff of Michael Vick. Unless you're prepared for this sudden transformation, you're fucked.
I don't think the conclusion is that a liter bike is a better choice for a newb. The conclusion is that the "nice, sedate, unintimidating" 600 has greater potential to surprise and shock (in a bad way) an inexperienced rider.
11B
Infantry, Army, 1991-2004
I don't think the OP is actually talking about a 600 CC being more dangerous than a 1000 CC :laughing . That seems a bit twisted to me ^_O. Rather, the general idea seems to be - the bigger the bike the more power there will be to control, and for a new rider, it can be a potentially hazardous task.
sanjuro
Rider
After reading this thread: http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=308467, I think all 7 points why you shouldn't get a 600 are covereed.
Ironbutt
Loves the anecdotal
Um.. I think it's a little "pontificaty" myself.. He clearly thinks very high of his own skill.. :|
11B
Infantry, Army, 1991-2004
I find skill or thinking highly of yourself to be a bit overrated
. The important thing is to provide good information. Honestly, I could care less if the guy has never ridin' a bike in his entire life as long as what he says is right ^^.Kinda like Venus and Serena Williams who were taught how to play tennis from their father - who incidently taught them how to play from a "book", lol.
Thateguhate
Dislikes Cyclists!
To each they're own.. I bought an F4i as my first bike two weeks ago. I have no regrets, The bike is stable, I can plant my feet on the floor and I don't feel as if the bike will get away from me that easy.
Starting on a 250cc is not a bad idea but the power difference/ weight difference from a 250cc to a 600cc sportbike is far from the same which wouldn't help with the learning curve TOO MUCH. I went from a 50cc ruckus, rode a couple of 250's and I cant say I regret my purchase. I've been practicing around the neighborhood and seemed to have grasped the throttle concept and my counterweight. The most important thing is for the rider to WANT to learn... The more you want it, the faster you will catch on and make sure your doing so safely.
Starting on a 250cc is not a bad idea but the power difference/ weight difference from a 250cc to a 600cc sportbike is far from the same which wouldn't help with the learning curve TOO MUCH. I went from a 50cc ruckus, rode a couple of 250's and I cant say I regret my purchase. I've been practicing around the neighborhood and seemed to have grasped the throttle concept and my counterweight. The most important thing is for the rider to WANT to learn... The more you want it, the faster you will catch on and make sure your doing so safely.
Stormdragon
Still Good Lookin'
'Tis the season of the thread res.
knowhere
safety first
Well, I think everybody can see the point the first post is making, but not everybody likes the mentoring tone of it. It's all true and correct, but the way it's presented still hurts some of peeps egos a bit, and they flip back to justify their decision saying "well, it was ok for me, see?".
You can't convince a person by saying "don't, you can't, you won't succeed". I think it can be a good guide if re-written on a note of "do, can, will succeed" by giving suggestions. You can however impress on them with your example, your story - and giving options of what to DO instead of stressing what NOT to do.
My first bike - '85 Suzuki Madura (700cc) - I bought clean for $1100 in October, and sold for $1500 in 17 months (spring) after adding 11k miles and dropping it 5 times in various conditions. My second bike I dropped 2 times during ownership and 15,5k miles ridden. My third bike has not seen the blacktop yet, and I hope to keep it that way... Nevertheless - mistakes are there to be made.
Is there one person here with 20-30k of riding experience that has not dropped theirs once?
As for myself, I would add that learning to ride on a cruiser type may be a smart idea too. Your seating position is more natural, steering is more familiar from bicycles, it's more comfortable, etc. There are some sexy old cruisers around - think Suzi Intruder, for example), and they are fairly cheap. They will indeed sell for just about the same price (sometimes more, if seasons are picked right).
peace,
i
You can't convince a person by saying "don't, you can't, you won't succeed". I think it can be a good guide if re-written on a note of "do, can, will succeed" by giving suggestions. You can however impress on them with your example, your story - and giving options of what to DO instead of stressing what NOT to do.
My first bike - '85 Suzuki Madura (700cc) - I bought clean for $1100 in October, and sold for $1500 in 17 months (spring) after adding 11k miles and dropping it 5 times in various conditions. My second bike I dropped 2 times during ownership and 15,5k miles ridden. My third bike has not seen the blacktop yet, and I hope to keep it that way... Nevertheless - mistakes are there to be made
.Is there one person here with 20-30k of riding experience that has not dropped theirs once?
As for myself, I would add that learning to ride on a cruiser type may be a smart idea too. Your seating position is more natural, steering is more familiar from bicycles, it's more comfortable, etc. There are some sexy old cruisers around - think Suzi Intruder, for example), and they are fairly cheap. They will indeed sell for just about the same price (sometimes more, if seasons are picked right).
peace,
i
SuperSonic
Faster than roadrunner
I think the rider should decide on a bike after taking the MSF course. See how the 250 feels at first. see if a 600 might be to much after riding a 250. I had never been on a bike ever in my life until i took the MSF course. MY steering starting off the day was horrible. AFter about an hr I started to get the hang of it. by the end of the day i knew that i would be bored with a 250 because i wanted more power especially if i'm goint to be on the freeway more. first time ever being on a 600 it felt perfect not to much and not to little. i think it all depends but in msf they do a good job of teaching you the basics i highly recommend it before deciding on what bike to pick.
icemilkcoffee
Well-known member
I'm a noob here.. and at the expense of sounding like a fool, IMHO the best bike to learn on is a scooter with auto/CVT trans. Not having to worry about the shifter will take a big load off your mind. The low seat height, low center of gravity, good visibility and light overall weight all make the scooter the ideal learning vehicle.
My own first bike was a dual purpose XL175. My second bike oddly enough was a Harley XLCH kick-start-only sportster. But when it came time to take my M1 test (I didn't have a running bike at that time) I rented a scooter and I'm so glad I did that. It's far easier to maneuver than the motorcycles I had and it was fun too. So if you're a new rider- don't overlook scooters! Avoid the <150cc ones though. Especially the 4 strokers. I had a Honda Supercub 70cc step-through for a while. It was a fun little scoot but it's too slow in traffic.
My own first bike was a dual purpose XL175. My second bike oddly enough was a Harley XLCH kick-start-only sportster. But when it came time to take my M1 test (I didn't have a running bike at that time) I rented a scooter and I'm so glad I did that. It's far easier to maneuver than the motorcycles I had and it was fun too. So if you're a new rider- don't overlook scooters! Avoid the <150cc ones though. Especially the 4 strokers. I had a Honda Supercub 70cc step-through for a while. It was a fun little scoot but it's too slow in traffic.
HalfEvil
333
I think it's far less based on displacement, compared to bike geometry.
600cc sport bike compared to say, a KTM Duke 690 or even Suzuki SV1000...
modern sport bikes are race bikes with lights on them.
I recommend to all potential new riders, a supermoto geometry as a first bike, because of the forgiveness.
600cc sport bike compared to say, a KTM Duke 690 or even Suzuki SV1000...
modern sport bikes are race bikes with lights on them.
I recommend to all potential new riders, a supermoto geometry as a first bike, because of the forgiveness.
SexyParty!
This Calls For A...!
I started with a GSXR600 and I'm fine lol. It's just like owning a lambo, if you drive like a jackass, you're probably going to get hurt. But as long as you respect the vehicle you're driving and don't drive like a jackass, you're fine.
mdy
Well-known member
This. The margin in cost between a new entry level 250cc like a Ninja (~$4000) and a superbike ($20,000) that can easily do 180MPH or more with mods is so small. The technology to make that possible simple didn't exist a few years ago.
We've already passed the point where the motorcycle is what's the bottleneck, now it's the limits of human capabilities, with active suspension, automatic shifting, ABS, etc. Riders are becoming spam-in-a-can at the upper end.
The idea that it's perfectly legal for any Joe Schmoe consumer to go into a dealership and buy a 600 or 750 or 1000cc monster after tooling around on an MSF parking lot for 2 days on a Nighthawk (or not) is insane to me. If other new riders want to kill themselves on those things, I hope they do it at the track and stay far, far away from me.