Panic Braking Question

[cardinal03]

this question is inspired by this thread http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=156957

I suppose I have two questions:

1. My instinct was always that one should EITHER "panic" brake OR evade. Shaving speed, then evading is one thing, but should I evade with the clutch in and no power to the rear (I know, under some circumstances evading will mean accelerating, so obviously I'd need power, but then I don't think I'd be braking to begin with, just accelerating) or should I re-engage power to the rear wheel?

2. If I need to use the brake, I always pull in the cluth. If I need to shave speed, I'll let off the gas. Sometimes I'll downshift and engine brake. But if I need to use the brake I'll always also pull the clutch in. And I always figured that in a panic braking situation, I would just wait until I came to a complete stop. Is this a bad habit?

 

[argh]

A freewheeling rear is not your friend, IMHO. Well, at least with respect to motorcycles.

I don't even know what that meant. Sorry.

Clutch out. Even when I'm coming to a stop, I don't pull it in the instant I start braking.

 

[Sidewalk]

I hate it when I make a long post, and then it doens't go through, errrr.

Anyway, to sum up.

There is no one right answer, every situation is different. However, I will say this:

The brakes should be used to slow down, not the engine. I know most people do it, and you are always going to do it to an extent, but why slow down and if nothing else, use your brake lights to show it? Besides, always using the brakes creates a habit.

I only clutch in to shift, or make an extremely hard stop (never been done except when practicing). I 'blip' the throttle between shifts to keep power to the wheel and prevent/reduce rear wheel lock up.

Every bike is different. Learn the strengths and weakness's of your bike and exploit them. I won't use horsepower to get me out of a situation on a Buell Blast, but I also won't use the flickability of the RR to avoid most poor situations when braking and HP are more effective.

Of course, preventing the situation is the better idea. It is rare for me to get into that kind of situation because I avoid them before then begin. Very rarely is there a bike wreck where the rider could have reasonably prevented it.

 

[Enchanter]

There is no one right answer, every situation is different.
<<snip>>
The brakes should be used to slow down, not the engine.
<<snip>>
...always using the brakes creates a habit.
<<snip>>
Every bike is different. Learn the strengths and weakness's of your bike and exploit them.
<<snip>>
Of course, preventing the situation is the better idea. <<snip>> avoid them before then begin.
<<snip>>
Very rarely is there a bike wreck where the rider could have reasonably prevented it.

Great, fantastic points.

 

[mynx]

I have the same instict to pull in the clutch when I brake. It didn't occur to me that this was a bad thing until an MSF instructor pointed it out. It is something I still have to think about per the situation. Hard brake - clutch in. Otherwise, no clutch.

 

[yelow748]

It comes down to learning how to stop fast on your bike
any one can stop , but if you have taken some time and practiced
those e and panaic stops ( no stoppies please ) the confidance level jumps up a few notches . remember there will be no same same situation at any givin time , so practice in a empty parking lot , set up cones the width like you are lane sharing is a good start , also get used to stopping over some slick surfaces , like painted lines ... bring water and a friend

 

[cardinal03]

good points all around. i've never had to really panic brake, but i'll try to wean off the auto-clutch in when braking.

 

[Enchanter]

In a non-panic braking situation, I regularly leave the clutch out until I'm at fairly low speed for the gear I'm in.

In a situation where I want to stop in the shortest possible distance, I squeeze the clutch damn near the same time I begin using the brakes. It allows me to focus damn near all of my attention on braking effectively. It also disconnects the spinning motor/transmission from the situation. This allows 100% of the braking force to be used for slowing the wheels on the pavement. With the clutch out, some of the braking force is being used slowing the engine and transmission. The end result is extended stopping distances compared to using just the brakes to stop.

 

[faz]

^ Thanks Tim.

I learned something new today. I always left the clutch out, as I thought it helped with braking distances.

 

[plumber]

I love the RT's ABS. It has spoiled the hell out of me. I was getting off the freeway the other day. It was a ramp to a stop sign. I normally would haul it down pretty firmly in the dry. It wasn't raining that day but the ramp was wet to the stop sign. I didn't see the wetness until I was on it. I clearly overrode my eye sight. I initiated the brakes and the bike just stopped. It was clearly slippery and the ABS just took over. It actually hauled down pretty quick.

Long live ABS

 

[ALANRIDER7]

Motorcyclist or Sport Rider did a test a few years ago and found that pulling in the clutch removes the engine/transmission momentum from the equation and allows for a shorter panic stop by a few feet. This is in a straight line with a skilled rider at the controls. Your mileage may vary. When I have tested this theory myself on the street, I have found it to be true.

 

[Enchanter]

Motorcyclist or Sport Rider did a test a few years ago and found that pulling in the clutch removes the engine/transmission momentum from the equation and allows for a shorter panic stop by a few feet. This is in a straight line with a skilled rider at the controls. Your mileage may vary. When I have tested this theory myself on the street, I have found it to be true.

Road & Track also found this to be true with cars.

 

[i4strtsweepr]

Promocycle back in Jan/04 found same under controlled conditions - although the advantage of clutch in or out in an estop was only ~5ft from 60mph

(if you de-clutch *and* downshift, it was more like 10ft longer; presumably you're less focused on using front brake to the limit when you're also downshifting.)

 

[ALANRIDER7]

5 feet is huge in a panic stop situation. It can be the difference between a close call and a bodybag.

 

[Red6Rdr]

I'm confused, so the consensus is that pulling in the clutch WHILE braking is the best method right?

 

[Enchanter]

I'm confused, so the consensus is that pulling in the clutch WHILE braking is the best method right?

Squeeze the clutch, keep it in and concentrate on the brakes.

 

[Red6Rdr]

I see, so I've been doing the right thing PLUS sometimes blipping/downshifting while braking.

 

[i4strtsweepr]

If you believe Promocycle's numbers, you lose about 10-1/2 ft downshifting in a panic stop -- that's roughly a car-length (!!)

-- and if you're blipping on top of it, you might be talking ~15ft since you're splitting concentration across three actions (...and feathering the rear? That's 4 things.).

I think Enchanter has it right:
"Squeeze the clutch, keep it in and concentrate on the brakes."

 

[LeMec]

In a situation where I want to stop in the shortest possible distance, I squeeze the clutch damn near the same time I begin using the brakes. This allows 100% of the braking force to be used for slowing the wheels on the pavement. With the clutch out, some of the braking force is being used slowing the engine and transmission. The end result is extended stopping distances compared to using just the brakes to stop.

Unless you are giving the bike throttle at the same time you are trying to brake, I believe you are mistaken. If there is no throttle being given, you will have engine braking until the RPMs drop to idle speed. Freewheeling destabilizes the bike, reducing control and increasing the chances of a slideout.

 

[plumber]

Unless you are giving the bike throttle at the same time you are trying to brake, I believe you are mistaken. If there is no throttle being given, you will have engine braking until the RPMs drop to idle speed. Freewheeling destabilizes the bike, reducing control and increasing the chances of a slideout.

Freewheeling is coasting in neutral or clutch in. The motorcycle isn't freewheeling during braking. The suspension is loading up and preventing the chassis from lurching forward as the tires stop the bike.