Nice article about the dangers of the TT

kevin 714

kevin 714

Well-known member
4 now I believe

on reddit I posted my disdain for this needlessly dangerous event and was down voted into oblivion lol
 
DonJigweed

DonJigweed

Urban Achiever
needless |ˈnēdləs|
adjective
(of something bad) unnecessary; avoidable: I deplore needless waste.
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And who gets to decide what is necessary or not? What happens when they decide motorcycles, whether being raced on the IoM or Mugello or Thunderhill or just ridden around on the street, are unnecessary and avoidable?
 
kevin 714

kevin 714

Well-known member
IMO the TT is needlessly dangerous, has lost all its prestige and connection to the greater racing world as a whole

If the residents wanna keep running her, that's their right. If the racers want to race, ok.
But personally I'd like to see the event modernized whole still holding onto its greater tradition and history
 
stangmx13

stangmx13

not Stan
i wonder if there is any correlation btw death and experience on the course.

i cant imagine pushing on a track where ive had very few laps and the consequences of a mistake are so high.
 
P

Phanuel

Confused
kevin 714 said:
IMO the TT is needlessly dangerous, has lost all its prestige and connection to the greater racing world as a whole

If the residents wanna keep running her, that's their right. If the racers want to race, ok.
But personally I'd like to see the event modernized whole still holding onto its greater tradition and history
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How do you modernize civilian road racing? It'll never have the required safety run offs. It'll have walls, benches, trees, houses, etc right by the side of the road. And for the mountain course, sheer drop offs and cliff sides.

This just feels like a deeper discussion about wanting to limit other people's freedom to do what they want regardless of the consequences that they can freely accept. The TT portion of this is actually irrelevant. With over 7 billion people on the planet, we can let some people live how they want despite how much you want to protect them as long as everyone involved is aware of the risks and has accepted them.
 
kevin 714

kevin 714

Well-known member
Phanuel said:
How do you modernize civilian road racing? It'll never have the required safety run offs. It'll have walls, benches, trees, houses, etc right by the side of the road. And for the mountain course, sheer drop offs and cliff sides.

This just feels like a deeper discussion about wanting to limit other people's freedom to do what they want regardless of the consequences that they can freely accept. The TT portion of this is actually irrelevant. With over 7 billion people on the planet, we can let some people live how they want despite how much you want to protect them as long as everyone involved is aware of the risks and has accepted them.
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this is exactly why I wont be discussing anything with you, anywhere on this board. you create straw man arguments politically based, and then put that forth.

put me on ignore
 
P

Phanuel

Confused
And this is why debate is pointless around here because nobody actually wants to get to the core of an issue. It's all a superficial me vs you without having a discussion as to what is forming the basis of an opinion.

This is a political discussion whether you want to publicly admit to it or not. Everything is politics.
 
JakesKTM

JakesKTM

Well-known member
Far more people have died mountain climbing and more people have died in the sport that I regularly participate in white water kayaking and rafting . Scuba diving is another sport that has claimed more lives yet none of the people in any of the above mentioned sports have become famous or earned money doing what they love to do. To complain that the isle of man is un necessarily dangerous is ridiculous it's a high-risk sport that people choose to compete in the only reason close circuit racing is made safe is so that promoters can make more money off of the lives of the racers. If mountain climbing were truly as popular as motorsports you'd see Mount Everest lined with runoffs and safety traps for falling climbers a notion that is absolutely ridiculous
 
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ontherearwheel

Well-known member
I watched the movie Meru. Sleeping on a potaledge at @ 20,000 seems needlessly dangerous to me. Stradingly, meaning sitting on a ledgepeak inching up to reach the top seems needlessly dangerous to me......but I truely understand why they do it. BTW, they were the first to do so.

It's a shame there are those that don't understand the desire just to do something cause it's there.

The danger is the part tradition, of the mystic of doing the TT......win or lose. I'll never be able to say I raced at the Isle of Mann......no matter how much I want too. I would love to say..."I did that."

Last couple of MA races have had some interesting incidents.......needlessly dangerous ones.......but shit happens. That's racing, that's also part of the Isle of Mann.

If ya really think the Isle of Mann is too dangerous........don't watch......that way you want be scared.
 
DonJigweed

DonJigweed

Urban Achiever
kevin 714 said:
IMO the TT is needlessly dangerous, has lost all its prestige and connection to the greater racing world as a whole

If the residents wanna keep running her, that's their right. If the racers want to race, ok.
But personally I'd like to see the event modernized whole still holding onto its greater tradition and history
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Yeah, i get that. I'm the same way too. IoM is kind of sick on some level. But I would never want to see it outlawed. I'd be happy if over time people just stopped wanting to race in it and eventually not enough people showed up to run the race.

Of course, wouldn't IoM racers and fans simply to say to me, "Dude, what's the difference between club and pro road racing and the IoM, other than a few deaths and injuries? It's a difference in degree not a difference in kind."
 
stangmx13

stangmx13

not Stan
The chances of dying rock climbing are not 3/200 annually, deaths/participants. Comparing this event to other sports where participation is orders of magnitude higher only stands to further make the point that the IOM TT is extremely dangerous.
 
kelsodeez

kelsodeez

2wheels good 4wheels bad
As a society, as humans, we need people that stare into the precipice of death and we need to revere them as heroes because it reminds us that an intangible compulsion to be better than the next person is the only way that we progress as individuals and as a society. regardless of how fragile human life is. there is no risk without reward and these riders embody that.

saying that its needlessly dangerous is wrong. regardless of how intrinsically wrong it seems on the surface, we need people to do dangerous shit because we learn about our own mortality and recognize how short the time that is given to us.

memento mori
 
j5m

j5m

Well-known member
If this was America, I'd be worried about the government (local, state or otherwise) banning the event. Or it being uninsurable.

I wouldn't want them to change the course, but maybe more motorcycle limits would be reasonable. Sub 400cc, or something along those lines.
 
JakesKTM

JakesKTM

Well-known member
stangmx13 said:
The chances of dying rock climbing are not 3/200 annually, deaths/participants. Comparing this event to other sports where participation is orders of magnitude higher only stands to further make the point that the IOM TT is extremely dangerous.
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I'm talking about mountaineering on Everest. Since 1922, 290 deaths. Should it be regulated? Is it a "freak show"? Who's watching? Who's making money off those deaths?

Participation on Everest isn't "magnitudes higher." It is probably very comparable in terms of attempts and participation.

I don't see runoffs and air fences being placed on the mountain.
 
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kevin 714

kevin 714

Well-known member
JakesKTM said:
I'm talking about mountaineering on Everest. Since 1922, 290 deaths. Should it be regulated? Is it a "freak show"? Who's watching? Who's making money off those deaths?

Participation on Everest isn't "magnitudes higher." It is probably very comparable in terms of attempts and participation.

I don't see runoffs and air fences being placed on the mountain.
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Everest is full of of established safety precautions, required permits, established routes, etc. Do you know about climbing?


The VAST majority of submit attempts involve pre set ropes and ladders by experienced guides. The route is set up, weather reporterd, and in general totally pre established for all but the most fully expert climbers with specific licenses

In reality the climbing version of runoff and safety barriers, is in fact set up prior to accept attempts
 
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