newbies: when they told you "press right to go right, press left to go left"...

[Kensaku]

Nope, even after i seeing a video of this guy swerving left with the front wheel pointing right. I refused to believe. Not that i didn't try, but most of the speed that we're going at that time is below 20 MPH and counter-steering is hardly noticeable.

I am assuming you meant, at the time you were taking MSF, counter-steering was hardly noticeable.

Counter-steering is very much noticeable at low-speeds...and at all speeds. It's physics.

 

[Vane]

quite, EXTREMELY noticable at lowest speeds, at least on my bicycle, you just fall over into a turn

 

[Serge]

quite, EXTREMELY noticable at lowest speeds, at least on my bicycle, you just fall over into a turn

well, I am still puzzled with all this steering thing. I think no one rationalized it yet for low-speed maneuvers. For example, can you tell exactly what your steering inputs are during 90 degrees turn with acceleration from dead stop on the traffic light? And which of them are really needed?

I tried to sort it out for myself doing circles of minimal radius on the parking lot. I was not able to do them with front wheel locked to the right or left, there was still some counter-steering input required (may be it is just me though..). Then if you increase speed doing circles you unavoidably get to larger radius and more pronounced countersteering...

Antoher funny thing is to watch what are you doing with weight transfer and what is going on with a hadle bar during hands-off turns on bicycle.

 

[Kensaku]

well, I am still puzzled with all this steering thing. I think no one rationalized it yet for low-speed maneuvers. For example, can you tell exactly what your steering inputs are during 90 degrees turn with acceleration from dead stop on the traffic light? And which of them are really needed?

I tried to sort it out for myself doing circles of minimal radius on the parking lot. I was not able to do them with front wheel locked to the right or left, there was still some counter-steering input required (may be it is just me though..). Then if you increase speed doing circles you unavoidably get to larger radius and more pronounced countersteering...

Antoher funny thing is to watch what are you doing with weight transfer and what is going on with a hadle bar during hands-off turns on bicycle.

You are overthinking it. Counter-steering is to initiate the lean of a motorcycle. If you're going so slow that you are able to do circles with the handlebars at full lock, then the physics needed to initiate a lean via counter-steering are moot.

BUT...

I kind of retract that statement. Try this little experiment. While sitting straight up on your (non-moving) bike, turn the handlebars to full lock. How does the bike react? It may be subtle, but the bike should want to lean the opposite direction of where the wheel is turned towards.

Try it on the kickstand. Turn the handlebars all the way to the right (assuming all bikes have kickstands on the left side). What does the bike want to do? It should put more pressure on the kickstand and often times the kickstand will jerk outwards (i.e. the bike will want to lean more to the left).