agreed, at 60mph, cars still have a chance to react and cut in front of you. Much safer at 90.
take it from what it's worth from an ex-nyc bike messenger: cars kinda give you space if you don't ride like a victim.
New Riders and the Freeway
- Thread starter CaptCrash
- Start date
agreed, at 60mph, cars still have a chance to react and cut in front of you. Much safer at 90.
take it from what it's worth from an ex-nyc bike messenger: cars kinda give you space if you don't ride like a victim.
kelvin8
I ain't even tryin'
Since you are really talking about Bay Area Freeways
then I'd tend to agree, because bay area drivers are terrible. I live near Sacramento, here I would disagree, not because there are fewer idiots, but they tend to be on the streets not so much the freeways and it's a less densely populated area. However, I first started riding on the freeways of Los Angeles, granted it was in the 70s, but I do visit from time to time and the drivers there are better than in the Bay Area, and since the highest risk to a biker comes from someone turning left in front of them, yes, there I'd also disagree, freeway riding for newbies is okay. Biking is NOT for the tentative, nor for those whose situational awareness envelope is very limited. A mature rider (regardless of age) should be able to handle freeways anywhere in the United States (Asia is another matter). There are always scary situations we find ourselves in as bikers, even with the highest skill level we cannot control those around us regardless of whether or not we're on a freeway or a two lane blacktop out in the boonies. BTW I've lived and driven in Sacramento, San Francisco, Oakland, Santa Monica, Los Angeles (echo park area), New Orleans, New Jersey (Scotch Plains area), Cambridge MA (my motorcycling has been limited to California from Redding to San Diego).
then I'd tend to agree, because bay area drivers are terrible. I live near Sacramento, here I would disagree, not because there are fewer idiots, but they tend to be on the streets not so much the freeways and it's a less densely populated area. However, I first started riding on the freeways of Los Angeles, granted it was in the 70s, but I do visit from time to time and the drivers there are better than in the Bay Area, and since the highest risk to a biker comes from someone turning left in front of them, yes, there I'd also disagree, freeway riding for newbies is okay. Biking is NOT for the tentative, nor for those whose situational awareness envelope is very limited. A mature rider (regardless of age) should be able to handle freeways anywhere in the United States (Asia is another matter). There are always scary situations we find ourselves in as bikers, even with the highest skill level we cannot control those around us regardless of whether or not we're on a freeway or a two lane blacktop out in the boonies. BTW I've lived and driven in Sacramento, San Francisco, Oakland, Santa Monica, Los Angeles (echo park area), New Orleans, New Jersey (Scotch Plains area), Cambridge MA (my motorcycling has been limited to California from Redding to San Diego).
bingia
Well-known member
While you're at it, might as well do 100mph. Oh and make sure you wear full suit, so that when the ER comes, they don't have to deal with scattered parts, just one big junk. :thumbup
You are making the assumption that they looked for, and saw you. If they do not, then it is you that does not have the time to react.
I had NEVER even TOUCHED a motorcycle before MSF. :ride
Week after passing, I drove 110 miles down to Fresno, and rode 110 miles back on the freeway/trial by fire stop and go traffic and city riding...on a dualsport...aaaand, had the choke on for 20 mins :rofl and was in 4th thinking it was 5th for 45 :wtf
About halfway back I had that figured out and it was much nicer :thumbup doh!
So. It varies by each rider. Yet I would NOT suggest that for most new riders. It is a lot to handle, but I was of the mind that I would do my thing and suceed and that day I did--perhaps with a VERY few changes I would be a statistic.
arty
Week after passing, I drove 110 miles down to Fresno, and rode 110 miles back on the freeway/trial by fire stop and go traffic and city riding...on a dualsport...aaaand, had the choke on for 20 mins :rofl and was in 4th thinking it was 5th for 45 :wtf
About halfway back I had that figured out and it was much nicer :thumbup doh!
So. It varies by each rider. Yet I would NOT suggest that for most new riders. It is a lot to handle, but I was of the mind that I would do my thing and suceed and that day I did--perhaps with a VERY few changes I would be a statistic.
arty
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That's right bro, my junk is big
And yup, if cars are doing 80, I might split at 100. Don't be a dick and wish a crash on another motorcyclist. And yeah, thanks for the advice, but I already *do* wear the kitchen sink on *every* ride. I'm in full race leathers if I putz to the 7-11 for the latest porno mag. I've put on about 100k miles on bay area freeways and no accidents. So I must be fracking full of luck (and yeah, some of lane splitting is pure luck, whether you are at 30 or 60 mph) . What's the big dealio about riding on the freeway anyhow -- everyone is basically going the same direction. Jesus fracking chud, shut-up and ride
No, actually, the only assumption I made is that people could sniff out a tinge of sarcasm. Riding, my assumption is either I'm invisible or that someone wants to hit me -- I never ride with the assumption that I'm seen with high regard.
I'm just saying that in my experience, i have fewer close calls if I drive 'aggressively' -- but your mileage may differ, and I hope you get home safely too. cheers
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Took to the freeway 3 weeks after i got my first beater motorcycle/started riding. Scared the bejesus outta me. Great rush tho.
I feel like as long as its a freeway thats rather empty and not full of crazy holes/gapes/bumps like 101N its fine. Like in any other situation road.. always keep an eye out.. ride within limits (even if it means going slow)... and try to always keep out of blind spots/open areas of traffic.
I feel like as long as its a freeway thats rather empty and not full of crazy holes/gapes/bumps like 101N its fine. Like in any other situation road.. always keep an eye out.. ride within limits (even if it means going slow)... and try to always keep out of blind spots/open areas of traffic.
iyeager
Well-known member
While I'm not about to take Slummy's side, I also don't know what's so dangerous about riding on the freeway. The encounters you will have on a freeway are the exact same encounters you will have on a side road, back road, dirt road, etc... Looking ahead, playing the 'what if' game, preparing for the weather, reading the road conditions, watching other traffic, etc... If you feel unprepared for dealing with any of these situations, it's likely you need to revisit the MSF and perhaps some more advanced riders courses.
I've only been in the bay area for a year now, and on two wheels here for about a month. But I've been riding for a very long time, and while the traffic might be a little more interesting here than in Kansas City, we definitely took the cake for bad roads, bad weather, and idiot drivers, whether it be a side street, main street, or interstate highway (it's like a freeway, but full of semis too pissed off being stuck in middle America to pay attention to you and your bike.) We rode in wind, rain, hail, snow, and heat. And if any newer riders ever said to me that he felt like he should stay off the highways, I would've told him the same thing. That highway is no more or less dangerous than the road in front of his house, and making that mistake could be fatal.
Complacency can happen anywhere. How many times have you taken the last turn into your neighborhood a little hot because you know it's always clear. How many times do you forgo the gear just because you're heading up the street for gas so you don't have to do it in the morning. How many times do you zone out in the mile or so from the freeway exit to your front door? There are just as many dangers, if not more because of two-way traffic, pedestrians, trees, oil slicks, etc... on your side street as there are on the freeway. Telling a new rider to stay off the freeways only lulls them into a false sense of security on the side streets and that's even more dangerous than them learning to deal with the hazards of any road they encounter.
But that's just my two cents, and what do I know, I'm just some hick from Kansas.ink
-Ian
I've only been in the bay area for a year now, and on two wheels here for about a month. But I've been riding for a very long time, and while the traffic might be a little more interesting here than in Kansas City, we definitely took the cake for bad roads, bad weather, and idiot drivers, whether it be a side street, main street, or interstate highway (it's like a freeway, but full of semis too pissed off being stuck in middle America to pay attention to you and your bike.) We rode in wind, rain, hail, snow, and heat. And if any newer riders ever said to me that he felt like he should stay off the highways, I would've told him the same thing. That highway is no more or less dangerous than the road in front of his house, and making that mistake could be fatal.
Complacency can happen anywhere. How many times have you taken the last turn into your neighborhood a little hot because you know it's always clear. How many times do you forgo the gear just because you're heading up the street for gas so you don't have to do it in the morning. How many times do you zone out in the mile or so from the freeway exit to your front door? There are just as many dangers, if not more because of two-way traffic, pedestrians, trees, oil slicks, etc... on your side street as there are on the freeway. Telling a new rider to stay off the freeways only lulls them into a false sense of security on the side streets and that's even more dangerous than them learning to deal with the hazards of any road they encounter.
But that's just my two cents, and what do I know, I'm just some hick from Kansas.
ink-Ian
danate
#hot4beks
I'd agree that you should wait until you have a grasp on the basics before hitting the freeway (this is person dependent...anywhere from a month to a year or more), but otherwise it just comes down to concentration and ability to stay focused on driving. This applies to bikes and cars and all levels of experience. If you are not paying attention, you are at risk of causing an accident (and yes it will be worse while doing 70mph on the freeway).
Having been a commuter for many years and in a profession where driving is a trained and paid skill, I have trained myself to not zone out on the freeway. If I am tired and noticing it, I will pull off and rest for 10-15 before proceeding (even if not sleeping, sometimes your brain needs a break from processing the road). Even then, I do catch myself at times not at my full awareness, which usually is enough to give me a little adrenaline burst and get me back to full attention.
It's funny, I will be ready for bed when I get off work at 3am, but after my commute home (approx 30 minutes) it will take me a good half hour to an hour to wind myself back down to a read-for-bed state.
Having been a commuter for many years and in a profession where driving is a trained and paid skill, I have trained myself to not zone out on the freeway. If I am tired and noticing it, I will pull off and rest for 10-15 before proceeding (even if not sleeping, sometimes your brain needs a break from processing the road). Even then, I do catch myself at times not at my full awareness, which usually is enough to give me a little adrenaline burst and get me back to full attention.
It's funny, I will be ready for bed when I get off work at 3am, but after my commute home (approx 30 minutes) it will take me a good half hour to an hour to wind myself back down to a read-for-bed state.
For me, I wasn't comfortable riding on the freeway for a long time so I avoided it until I felt ready. After I was more comfortable riding at higher speeds and in traffic I would take short trips and worked my way up to regular freeway riding and commuting.
It took me a while, probably longer than it should have, but it is worth it to be relaxed, confident and able to enjoy the ride.
It took me a while, probably longer than it should have, but it is worth it to be relaxed, confident and able to enjoy the ride.
How do you get skilled? Experience correct? You wont get experience sitting in a parking lot.
You can't expect someone to magically develop skills unlesd they are in a wide variety of situations. Being good at motorcycling is a bit like being good at Russian roulette. Its a dangerous game.
This thread is nearly beat to death. When you feel you are ready for new situations to grant new experienced and gain new skills then go for it newbies. Just remember it is your life on the line and no one can tell you to go or not to go...only you.
You can't expect someone to magically develop skills unlesd they are in a wide variety of situations. Being good at motorcycling is a bit like being good at Russian roulette. Its a dangerous game.
This thread is nearly beat to death. When you feel you are ready for new situations to grant new experienced and gain new skills then go for it newbies. Just remember it is your life on the line and no one can tell you to go or not to go...only you.
tryptomine
Ballsdeep in sh!%kickin
first thing i did when i got my M1 was take my friends bike on the freeway, not a long ride and it wasnt during peak hours and it was in the east bay. Most of my beginner riding was spent commuting from Richmond to Novato during the AM on 580. I think it really all depends on the riders comfort level, and as a newbie or any rider for that matter you should never get complacent with your ride, freeway or not. After many years of commuting during rush hour in SF through both city and freeway, I feel safer on the freeway, but each type of riding offers a different kind of challenge. Although citing another post in this thread the one situation that always makes my hair stand is being in a moving HOV lane while everything else is at a deadstop. Either way the point is ride your own ride, dont step too far beyond your own comfort level, and as a newbie try to stay away from high traffic situations, freeway or city if at all possible.
RightCoastBias
F8TRED
I did it the first day I had my bike up and running. Sometimes, you just can't think too much and just need to do. At least that works for me.
browncheetah
powered by rice
expect the unexpected, eye lead time and check your mirrors often.
babyhuyx
Well-known member
I use plenty of the skills I learned from driving my manual car while riding. I commuted from sacramento to san jose within my first 6 months of MSF. New riders just need to not assume freeway is a cakewalk, and not grow a imaginary huge cock, and they'll be fine (usually).
I'm assuming everyone has weaved on the freeway in their cages once or twice in their lifetime. You know that imaginary line that you see appear ahead of you that marks the path you need/want to take to weave through traffic? Yea I use that.
You know that 6th sense you get when your looking at the imaginary line and go "hmmm that car looks like a retard and I think he's gonna change lanes without signalling" and lo and behold your right!.
Saying using cage experience on the freeway as motorcycle experience is dumb, sure. But using the skills you learned on the freeway in a cage, while your riding a motorcycle is essential to me.
Experience on the freeway regardless of what your riding in, (assuming your driving intelligently) is PREDICTION PREDICTION AND PREDICTION. You should know the flow of traffic and what all the cars around you are doing.
And I agree with Slumper in part that driving conservatively will get you in more trouble. Not saying drive like your on a motogp track, but don't putt putt at 55mph like your hyper-miling in a hybrid car.
I'm assuming everyone has weaved on the freeway in their cages once or twice in their lifetime. You know that imaginary line that you see appear ahead of you that marks the path you need/want to take to weave through traffic? Yea I use that.
You know that 6th sense you get when your looking at the imaginary line and go "hmmm that car looks like a retard and I think he's gonna change lanes without signalling" and lo and behold your right!.
Saying using cage experience on the freeway as motorcycle experience is dumb, sure. But using the skills you learned on the freeway in a cage, while your riding a motorcycle is essential to me.
Experience on the freeway regardless of what your riding in, (assuming your driving intelligently) is PREDICTION PREDICTION AND PREDICTION. You should know the flow of traffic and what all the cars around you are doing.
And I agree with Slumper in part that driving conservatively will get you in more trouble. Not saying drive like your on a motogp track, but don't putt putt at 55mph like your hyper-miling in a hybrid car.
i have some 40 years exp driving big rigs on the stuper slab.
does not matter what state you live in what matters is the state of the other driver.
people in there cages are not even aware of any others on the rd most are on auto pilot just trying to get to/from work 3/4 asleep, 99% not there.
the stuper slap is way too easy just throttle up and zoom away.
but watch out for road changes, that crack, over layer etc. gona get you even in your cage.
new bee's should stay off the freeways till they get some "skill".
even with all the years i have on a bike i will try to not use the stuper slab
not due to my skill level but cause i know how bad others are out there.
pulse the back roads offer some fun.��
does not matter what state you live in what matters is the state of the other driver.
people in there cages are not even aware of any others on the rd most are on auto pilot just trying to get to/from work 3/4 asleep, 99% not there.
the stuper slap is way too easy just throttle up and zoom away.
but watch out for road changes, that crack, over layer etc. gona get you even in your cage.
new bee's should stay off the freeways till they get some "skill".
even with all the years i have on a bike i will try to not use the stuper slab
not due to my skill level but cause i know how bad others are out there.
pulse the back roads offer some fun.��
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Ironbutt
Loves the anecdotal
I wasn't ready for the volume of traffic when I got here.. and I already had 100k under my belt.
I was seriously stressed out for the first few years. The volume and volatility is almost overwhelming. I couldn't imagine being a new rider here.. no wonder the attrition rate is so high..
This traffic has turned me into a straight up aggressive rider.. you have to be to survive..
I was seriously stressed out for the first few years. The volume and volatility is almost overwhelming. I couldn't imagine being a new rider here.. no wonder the attrition rate is so high..
This traffic has turned me into a straight up aggressive rider.. you have to be to survive..