Low sided. Not sure I can trust this tire.

[Gary856]

I think the cuts on the tire happened as the bike went down, or after the bike went down and slid. The cuts are the result of going down, but not the cause. Some surface roughness on asphalt could easily do that as the edge of the tire of a downed bike skidded along.

Blaming the tire and moving on means you've learned nothing. 40.8 psi may be a little high and may reduce traction, but that's still no reason for a low-side. Traction is always a variable, so expect/assume something to the point of crashing the bike means a different approach should be considered.

 

[davidji]

Some surface roughness on asphalt could easily do that as the edge of the tire of a downed bike skidded along.

If you think the >1mm deep gouge in the tire that followed the direction of rotation as lean increased is from the bike skidding along, you're mistaken.

 

[Maddevill]

I had a friend go down on 84 when he crossed water. He immediately blamed his Shinko tire. I explained that the other 3 of us had gone through the same water at least 10 mph faster than he had. His tires could have been made of wood and he wouldn't have crashed if he hadn't target fixated on the water and stabbed the brakes. It took some time having him go over his thoughts and view to get him to understand what he did. The tire was not the problem. The rider was.

Mad

 

[afm199]

in 2012 I attended a tire seminar at Road Rider, given by then Pirelli/Metzeler brand rep, tire engineer Ron Bowen (IIRC). He had us touch the surface of a new tire, and feel how slick it was (while explaining how new tires are slippery). He also said to set sport touring tires are sidewall maximum pressure. Which I may have done at least in the rear tire for awhile after, but later went down a bit.

The Continental tire has the Traction Skin™ feature where the virgin surface is textured and not slippery to the touch. I'd had the front for awhile, and it did everything I've asked of it. And I took the rear close to the edge on the other side on the trip from the tire shop back to work. It's possible I started believing in Traction Skin™ more than I should have.

I expect fast warm up from sport touring tires--maybe I should be more careful with that expectation. I've had ones that disappointed (including a HWM tire that was on the rear of the R when I got the bike that for me never seemed to warm up at all on cold rainy days), and it's possible this one has less cold grip that I expected. It won a recent tire comparo for dry grip, and that might come at a cost in cold grip or warm up time.

I think I'll try it at 36PSI.

I haven't ridden that bike since, but may commute on it tomorrow.

Sport touring tires at sidewall recommendation is ludicrous. That's a liability recommendation.

 

[stangmx13]

Sport touring tires at sidewall recommendation is ludicrous. That's a liability recommendation.

Im surprised that person wouldn't just say "manufacturer specs". those tend to be lower than max while also taking into account the weight of the motorcycle, which is tons better than max pressure.

 

[Junkie]

Oddly enough my NC700X says 36f/42r whether solo or 2 up. The rear is significantly higher than I'd expect to want to run, and higher than I run.

 

[295566]

If you think the >1mm deep gouge in the tire that followed the direction of rotation as lean increased is from the bike skidding along, you're mistaken.

Are you, then, implying you were leaned over to almost the edge of the tire on a low speed (public) turn? You said it yourself in the OP, that you did not have that much lean angle, in which case those gouges must have occurred after you lost traction, not before.

 

[Schnellbandit]

Max pressure? You betcha and then some.

http://cyrilhuzeblog.com/2011/06/03/picture-of-the-week-27/

A good case for solid tires. I think Rubbermaid has them.

On the serious side, once you lose confidence in the tire that is kinda it. Correct other things by all means but no matter what, confidence lost in a tire is hard to overcome.

A change in tire gives you a fresh perspective and lets you reflect on other contributing factors. By eliminating that one variable it allows you to focus your concentration.

The gouges look like cuts, not abrasion except the one feather. The feather could have resulted from the slide but the cuts happened from running over something or impact, not sliding, IMMHO.

 

[tzrider]

I typically run 38 PSI in the rear, but I had had this tire installed the day before, and the higher pressure I mentioned in the 1st post is how it was set. I had thought about checking it in the morning, but didn't. If this is all about running over something sharp, that's irrelevant. But if it's disappointing performance from a cold, new tire, I guess it could be a factor.

Cuts like that are common when a tire spins up and slides. It doesn't indicate that you ran over something sharp that made you fall down.

This scenario is a typical cold/new tire crash. You had the tire installed, didn't check the pressures, hadn't leaned it over very far on that side yet and had only ridden a half mile when you crashed. No tire is going to give its best grip under these conditions.

Your combination of lean angle and opening the throttle was too much for the condition at the moment. If you happened to be turning the throttle while adding lean angle, that can make a rear spin a lot sooner than if you set the lean angle before rolling on the gas.

The correction for this is to approach break-in and warmup with a little more caution. Scuff new tires gradually by progressively adding lean angle in successive turns. The contact patch in each of these turns should consist of some already scuffed rubber and some new. Be disciplined about this.

If you're in the habit of turning the bike quickly, turn in a little more slowly for the first few turns when tires are cold. If a tire slips, this makes it a little easier to catch than with a quicker turn-in. Once tires are warmer and you can predict traction, it's safe to turn more quickly.

Finally, be sure to separate turning in from rolling on the gas. Doing both at the same time is a time tested way to provoke a slide at much less lean angle than you would expect. Set the lean angle before you crack the throttle open.

It may ease your mind to replace the tire, but I think you'd come closer to addressing the cause if you correct some of the above.

 

[afm199]

What he said.

 

[davidji]

I was turning from a stop, and I was rolling on the throttle.

I looked at the pavement today. No debris that I noticed, and I didn't see any tire marks. I saw a little long, narrow break in the pavement, that at worst I'd expect a little bobble on. There was also an oil line, like from a car that drips enough that at low speeds they run together. Don't know if it was there a week ago, and I didn't notice any traces of oil on the tire. I wouldn't have expected more than a bobble from that either, though there could have been more oil there before a week's worth of rains--or none at all, if it's new. And I realize oil can surprise you. It surprised me 35 years ago, in my 1st low side. This was my 3rd.

From my 1st post:

It seems to me that my throttle and lean angle exceeded available grip, but I don't think I was asking that much of the tire.

At this point, I think that tire needs more warm up than I'm used to. Like I said I'm mostly on sport touring rubber that sticks well enough pretty much from the start. I have used tires that need more warm up, but haven't found out so abruptly in the past. Since this was yet another sport touring tire, my expectations were off.

 

[Holeshot]

40 lbs and cold....Ernie's right: pressure sounds really high. Higher pressure means stiffer sidewall which isn't what's desired in cold temps...so, I'd say with the higher PSI, colder temp and side load of the tire from turning/ accelerating, loss of grip and down.

 

[Escape pod]

Last time I purchased and had mounted tires at a BMW dealer. They produced, had me read and sign a safety notice, if memory serves: The new tires offer reduced traction and need broken in with reduced lean angles and light braking for approximently 500miles arty

I kept it in mind for 100 miles.

 

[stangmx13]

mileage has nothing to do with breaking in a new tire. u really only need heat. even scrubbing a tire doesn't add that much grip. a brand new unscrubbed hot tire will grip a ton more than a cold one.

1/2mi is only enough distance to add any heat to a tire if u ride like an asshat, accelerate super hard and brake super hard. I doubt u did that. your tires were stone cold, ambient temps were low, and the road didnt offer much grip. u likely would have crashed using any tire new or old.

 

[Junkie]

I had a new tire crash back in 09 or 10 that I blame on the new tire. BT016 IIRC, half a mile from putting it on, taking it easy, spun up the rear. Not something I'd ever crashed from before (and haven't since other than on track).

 

[Aware]

Last time I purchased and had mounted tires at a BMW dealer. They produced, had me read and sign a safety notice, if memory serves: The new tires offer reduced traction and need broken in with reduced lean angles and light braking for approximently 500miles arty

I kept it in mind for 100 miles.

500 miles? ROTFLMAO

 

[mototireguy]

Crash maybe not any one factor but a multi factor combo.

41psi is a tad high for riding solo on a not big not heavy Bmw R12R. I would suggest something more in the 35psi front - 36psi rear range.

High tire pressures on a not big not heavy bike combined with cold/damp weather doesn't enable much tire heating, tire stays mostly cold.

Maybe you hit some invisible oil/antifreeze/diesel/sludge patch.

The tire itself looks usable. That scratch/gouge only skin deep.