Low sided. Not sure I can trust this tire.

[davidji]

I low sided on my R1200R the other day at low speed, and not that much lean angle, on a brand new, cold sport touring tire. The gouges I see in the tread surface have me doubting this tires capabilities.

Situation: making a left turn from a stop sign. Tire pressure measured at 40.8PSI. Ambient temperature 49-50F, and I'd ridden 1/2 mile before the crash. I had a total of about 70 miles on the tire from new. It had been over near the other edge, but not very far on the left at all.

I'm leaning making the turn and the bike just kept going down. I don't think there was anything slippery on the ground. Though it was dark and I can't be certain.

I've probably been through there 100s of times, on tires from many manufacturers (mostly sport touring tires, and mostly cold), and no issues. I've had tires before that didn't warm up well for me, and they might be too prone to slip, but didn't just let go like that. I hadn't been down on the street for 145k miles, and I've never low sided from excessive throttle or lean angle for conditions before.

It seems to me that my throttle and lean angle exceeded available grip, but I don't think I was asking that much of the tire. Maybe it was too much for virgin tire surface, or cold virgin tire? But the way the tread gouged makes me want to install a different tire.

 

[Aware]

That looks like you ran over something.

 

[davidji]

That looks like you ran over something.

That could explain why the scratches and scrapes in the tread aren't all in the same direction.

 

[Gary856]

Situation: making a left turn from a stop sign. Tire pressure measured at 40.8PSI. Ambient temperature 49-50F, and I'd ridden 1/2 mile before the crash. I had a total of about 70 miles on the tire from new. It had been over near the other edge, but not very far on the left at all.

I don't buy the "cold-virgin tire caused the low-side" theory, ever. People ride in cold rain/mud/snow without low-siding. It's always hard to guess what happened unless the rider provided a very nuanced description on the throttle/steering actions, but I've got some general questions:

What is the mystery tire?

Why's the tire pressure at 40.8 psi? What's the total load (rider plus luggage)?

With 70 miles on the tire, why's it been over near the edge on the right, but not very far on the left? Trying to figure out your riding habit/situation.

What do you normally do when you feel the rear sliding in a turn?

 

[295566]

Looks like a Continental Conti Motion tire, but I could be wrong. They're cheap tires, but that doesn't mean they're bad. I've gotten them leaned over to the edge of the tire tread on a liter bike, so this wasn't the fault of the tire.

Best bet is you hit a slippery... something. Oil, manhole cover, something.

 

[davidji]

The deep gouges in the tread suggests to me that when the tire tried to hook up, the tread shredded instead.

I see 3 possibilities:
A) The shear strength of the tread is inadequate when cold
B) The shear strength of the tread is inadequate period. Maybe a defective tire.
C) As aware suggested, I ran over something.


B, and possibly A would have me wanting to replace this tire with one that doesn't suck. It's certainly possibly someone had dropped objects with sharp edges there.

It's not a Conti Motion.

 

[bmwbob51]

I run Shinko 705 (MFG recommended tire pressure 42lb) on my 2014 GS and the rear cost a little over $100 and the only time I feel any tire give is before they warm up or I run over something. Otherwise never an issue and I push the pretty hard and getting about 4K from a rear. Modern tire technology is pretty incredible.

 

[NorCalBusa]

Unless you want it to brain-fuck you every ride, the details don't matter much; once you don't believe in a tire- ditch it for a new one.

 

[davidji]

I run Shinko 705

I currently have those as well. I've run many tires, with mostly good results. This one may be an exception.

The fact that most modern tires work pretty well doesn't address the issue shown in the photos.

 

[Maddevill]

Those marks aren't from sliding. You ran over something fairly sharp.

Mad

 

[Smash Allen]

Do you have an eye prescription? I do, and when I don’t wear corrective lenses or glasses I can easily miss something small that would cause this. I would question my eyes before the tire from the information provided.

Piece of road debris or soda can? I would go back and scrutinize the location of the low side for clues.

You said you have ridden there hundreds of times, which means you may well have been on auto pilot and not checking your line for debris.

You said it was at a stop sign, which is another popular location for debris.

Impressive amount of street mileage without incident, hoping you get another 150k without another! This makes me think your throttle control was fine.

$100 says it was debris

 

[Biga]

I don't buy the "cold-virgin tire caused the low-side" theory, ever. People ride in cold rain/mud/snow without low-siding. It's always hard to guess what happened unless the rider provided a very nuanced description on the throttle/steering actions, but I've got some general questions:

What is the mystery tire?

Why's the tire pressure at 40.8 psi? What's the total load (rider plus luggage)?

With 70 miles on the tire, why's it been over near the edge on the right, but not very far on the left? Trying to figure out your riding habit/situation.

What do you normally do when you feel the rear sliding in a turn?

All good questions here...
Could the tire be a bit over inflated for the cold weather, If you were riding solo ?

 

[MapleRoad]

First, David, are you OK? Uninjured?

If I had experienced this, I would first be considering autopilot at an intersection I frequent often. I fight this laziness, but the problem is that it is sneaky.

To my eye, the scrapes do look like you rolled over something, lost traction, and there wasn't enough grip left in the tire/surface/acceleration equation to regain traction. I would give this even more credence if you were goosing it a little on your way out from the stop sign.

I agree with NorCalBusa to the extent of saying: If it is going to be a niggling problem in your head when you ride, get another tire. There are too many things needing your attention, and fretting over your tire is too much to ask.

 

[Honey Badger]

Agree with the others that those tears don't look like a normal loss of grip - those like there was something in the road that you likely ran over. What it was is anyone's guess since I'm under the impression you didn't go inspect the spot after the fact.

A tire that is losing grip from being cold doesn't look like that, and those tears are odd even for a crappy tire.

 

[gixxerjeff]

I have to vote for both sides here.
No, I don't believe the tire was the cause but I imagine your loss of faith in it will remain in your head.
I'd be inclined to replace the tire, even though there's most likely nothing wrong with it.
Peace of mind has value too...especially in the corners.

 

[davidji]

I did not inspection the spot after. It was dark and I thought I had just asked more from the tire than it was willing to give.

On a later day I inspected the tire at home looking for clues.

After that, and what I've read here, I wish I had inspected the pavement. I might do it later in the week during a dry (to better see tire marks) day time.

I'm fine. No injuries.

A few years ago I bought D30 hip armor, maybe to install in my Roadcrafter. It would have been good if I'd done it. I didn't see any scuffs on the Roadcrafter.

The OEM plastic head protector on the BMW might be adequate if you tipped a parked bike over, but not up to a brief slide. At least not the 12 years old one that was on there.

I typically run 38 PSI in the rear, but I had had this tire installed the day before, and the higher pressure I mentioned in the 1st post is how it was set. I had thought about checking it in the morning, but didn't. If this is all about running over something sharp, that's irrelevant. But if it's disappointing performance from a cold, new tire, I guess it could be a factor.

 

[buellistic]

I typically run 38 PSI in the rear, but I had had this tire installed the day before, and the higher pressure I mentioned in the 1st post. But if it's disappointing performance from a cold, new tire, I guess it could be a factor.

This!.......
The day before?
All new tires need to be broken in..

 

[afm199]

Running 41 psi in the cold is most definitely going to have something to do with what happened. That's simply to high. And a brand new tire? It will be extremely slippery until it's scuffed in.

PS: Never leave a tire at "the pressure it was set at." That's inflation pressure. The guy making $15 hourly mounting your tires knows NOTHING about you, or your needs. If it were me, I'd be hesitant to ride that rear over 36 psi, and probably go lower.

 

[Aware]

What are the manufacturer-recommended pressures?

 

[davidji]

Running 41 psi in the cold is most definitely going to have something to do with what happened. That's simply to high. And a brand new tire? It will be extremely slippery until it's scuffed in.

PS: Never leave a tire at "the pressure it was set at." That's inflation pressure. The guy making $15 hourly mounting your tires knows NOTHING about you, or your needs. If it were me, I'd be hesitant to ride that rear over 36 psi, and probably go lower.

in 2012 I attended a tire seminar at Road Rider, given by then Pirelli/Metzeler brand rep, tire engineer Ron Bowen (IIRC). He had us touch the surface of a new tire, and feel how slick it was (while explaining how new tires are slippery). He also said to set sport touring tires are sidewall maximum pressure. Which I may have done at least in the rear tire for awhile after, but later went down a bit.

The Continental tire has the Traction Skin™ feature where the virgin surface is textured and not slippery to the touch. I'd had the front for awhile, and it did everything I've asked of it. And I took the rear close to the edge on the other side on the trip from the tire shop back to work. It's possible I started believing in Traction Skin™ more than I should have.

I expect fast warm up from sport touring tires--maybe I should be more careful with that expectation. I've had ones that disappointed (including a HWM tire that was on the rear of the R when I got the bike that for me never seemed to warm up at all on cold rainy days), and it's possible this one has less cold grip that I expected. It won a recent tire comparo for dry grip, and that might come at a cost in cold grip or warm up time.

I think I'll try it at 36PSI.

I haven't ridden that bike since, but may commute on it tomorrow.