YOUNGTHRILL
Well-known member
thiers time when to push it......if you dont feel like your going to lose it in every turn your not riding hard enough!!!.
Limits
- Thread starter DataDan
- Start date
DataDan
Mama says he's bona fide
If you feel like you're going to lose it in every turn, you're going to crash. Soon.
If you're lucky and wearing good gear, you'll slide along the pavement, uninjured, watching your motorcycle become a heap of junk. If you're not lucky--no matter what you're wearing--you'll be splattered like a bug on the grille of a Toyota Land Crusher.
If you're smart, you'll be exploring those limits in the crash-friendly environment of the track.
Beauregard
Aut Agere Aut Mori
I'm just not even going to say anything. Except to remind myself to post a :rose for you in the near future.
DocWong
Well-known member
Beauregard
Aut Agere Aut Mori
Doc, I think you're the guy that taught me to flap my arms like a chicken to remind myself to stay loose... yes?
DocWong
Well-known member
Yes, guilty as charged. :rofl
DocWong
Well-known member
Assuming you're not actually kidding, well, I can appreciate the attitude as I'm very familiar with the thrills of motorcycling.
I'm sure you've heard it before, however, having known many fast street riders and done a lot of street and touring miles and some of it "spirited," on the streets, I've observed two things:
1. The "too fast in the streets" riders crash out and leave the motorcycling scene, not uncommonly espousing how dangerous motorcycling is. Or:
2. Get smart, keep sane on the streets, go track riding, club racing, dirt riding and other types of riding that challenge the rider and improves their skills in a more manageable risk scene.
If you can ride balls out forever, never get in an accident, never hurt yourself or anyone else, then I bow down to you! :ride
However that said and with over 40,000 riders having done my various clinics and events and known many many fast guys out there, I found no exception to the above 2 scenarios.
Unfortunately for younger riders who are bright, alert, coordinated, the trap of going faster and faster on the street *always* has a disappointing ending. The extreme thrill ends with injury, a friend injured or one realizes that the adrenaline rush can't be safely sustained.
Beauregard
Aut Agere Aut Mori
I go through your "Contact Points" lesson and do the body position lesson (complete with the chair) with all the new guys I ride with. Your outstanding teaching meathods create a strong learning curve.
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Beauregard
Aut Agere Aut Mori
I've had a couple "limit" lessons recently, one of which I shared with Dan and will reiterate here.
I've returned to my my first love, Supermoto, and over the past couple of months have come to learn that "limits" may be under-perceived in some cases. My example is a turn I took on a particularly twisty road in our county (San Luis Obispo). I had just come out of a right and was entering a tighter left; fully extended leg, bars down, head up, with my arms in what I call "the shovel" (photoshop a shovel where the bars are and it would look like I'm digging a hole). I was in third gear and in the very quick transition from right-to-left failed to downshift into the tighter left, so I was carrying more speed than I thought was do-able in this turn. I was past my limits... or so I thought.
Years of riding with and listening to more experienced riders- such as DataDan and DocWong paid off. In the split second I had to make the decision on how to scrub off some speed- my options being front, rear, or both brakes- I made the conscious decision to do nothing; to ride it out. I held my lean angle and body position and kept my head turned looking through the turn.I made the turn and transitioned into the next, no one but me knew the moment of sheer-terror-turned-exhilaration that I had felt. And it wasn't until later that I realized that it was experience and my willingness to keep learning that got me through that moment. Like muscle memory, the instinct to do nothing- hold my line- came to me, and I realized new limits and a new comfort.
The learning curve may plateau, but it never ends.
I've returned to my my first love, Supermoto, and over the past couple of months have come to learn that "limits" may be under-perceived in some cases. My example is a turn I took on a particularly twisty road in our county (San Luis Obispo). I had just come out of a right and was entering a tighter left; fully extended leg, bars down, head up, with my arms in what I call "the shovel" (photoshop a shovel where the bars are and it would look like I'm digging a hole). I was in third gear and in the very quick transition from right-to-left failed to downshift into the tighter left, so I was carrying more speed than I thought was do-able in this turn. I was past my limits... or so I thought.
Years of riding with and listening to more experienced riders- such as DataDan and DocWong paid off. In the split second I had to make the decision on how to scrub off some speed- my options being front, rear, or both brakes- I made the conscious decision to do nothing; to ride it out. I held my lean angle and body position and kept my head turned looking through the turn.I made the turn and transitioned into the next, no one but me knew the moment of sheer-terror-turned-exhilaration that I had felt. And it wasn't until later that I realized that it was experience and my willingness to keep learning that got me through that moment. Like muscle memory, the instinct to do nothing- hold my line- came to me, and I realized new limits and a new comfort.
The learning curve may plateau, but it never ends.
horsepower
WaterRider/Landsurfer
He clearly meant others, hence the term "Theirs time to push it" ....
:laughing now I am off to remind myself to never ride with that "there" guy.... ever.:coolWell said!:applause
DocWong
Well-known member
dammyneckhurts
Well-known member
Other than looking through the turn and riding it out, did you learn anything else?
Beauregard
Aut Agere Aut Mori
Yes.
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
But seriously, I think you missed my point, "looking through the turn" is already something I've always done. I think I pretty much cover what I learned in the second paragraph with the phrase "ride it out."
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n8
"omg!"
i think limits based on a rider's skill can be a bit misleading. I think it should be based on the road more. no matter how good you are, you'll still crash if there's a fallen tree around a blind corner. a professional racer can ride at 50% of his limit (lets assume that translate to 60mph in a 30mph turn).i'm sure he'll crash if there's a huge log across the middle of the road.
flying_hun
Adverse Selection
dammyneckhurts
Well-known member
The way you handled the unexpected speed into that corner is a mark of a skilled rider. It sounds like you took the bull by the horns and handled the failed downshift very well. Many of have and will not deal with it as successfully as you did, people and fixate on the ditch and ride straight into it all too often unfortunately.
Where I am going with this is to avoid getting into this situation in the first place.
Would using the brake to set your speed have made any difference is this instance? (Instead of planning on using the transmission to slow you down)
Beauregard
Aut Agere Aut Mori
Ahhhh... now I understand where you're going. Thank you for the clarification on your end.
After having raced 250SB (two-strokes) one would think that I would not have the quasi-bad habit of using the transmission, but I fell into the habit with singles. So yes, there is a lesson to be learned: brakes are for braking. To rely on the motor to do their job is not the best course of action.
flying_hun
Adverse Selection
:bump
This is such a great thread, and worth time for a rider of any level of experience to read, then re-read. Good stuff here. :cool
This is such a great thread, and worth time for a rider of any level of experience to read, then re-read. Good stuff here. :cool
danate
#hot4beks
Thanks for bumping it up. This is relevant for me as I had a "moment" the other night on my way home from work. There are a few fun on ramps that have a good curve to them and I occasionally take pretty fast. The one from 880 north to 238/580 east is the one I pushed it further than ever before on. That ramp rarely has a clear lane and this time it did, so instead of my usual scrubbing off of a little speed I just accelerated and threw it into the turn. As I approached max lean (which I almost never do, always a few bits of chicken strip on my tire) I had that "moment" where I looked at the white line on the left and and felt like I was going to go over it. In that millisecond I felt the adrenaline kick in, my heart rate jump and the little self question "is this going to be it?" Also in that moment I mentally kicked myself to turn my head back into the turn and get my body leaned off the bike. I ended up fully hanging off my bike (must have looked silly on an RT) and still dragging my right peg for a second at the tightest section. I am very harsh on myself for things like that and this was especially sobering since I haven't had that heart pounding feeling on my bike for a long time. Had I been going any faster, that could have been the end of me.
As for what caused it, I had ridden my GSXR the day before which obviously corners a lot quicker than my RT. I don't take out the GSXR often as it usually gives me a need for speed and that obviously lasted to the next day as well. I had forgotten my limits and got a reality check.
As for what caused it, I had ridden my GSXR the day before which obviously corners a lot quicker than my RT. I don't take out the GSXR often as it usually gives me a need for speed and that obviously lasted to the next day as well. I had forgotten my limits and got a reality check.
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