John Ulrich, keeping it real!
- Thread starter Ducky_Fresh
- Start date
TWF
training hard
what they should have done considering control riders came on their own expense to help is to incorporate 2-3 sessions for them.whole point of doing it is to ride around Laguna.instead you had control riders thrown out for every small thing while Polen and some others ducati favors would wheelie right through riders.
afmotorsports
Well-known member
My "version" had nothing to do with stuff that happened on the racetrack, it had to do with an individual's behavior in the pits, in the morning, before anyone got on the track. It set the tone for the day. We came out there to work for FREE so that the dealers wouldn't do stupid stuff and stack a bunch of DNA's bikes like they did the previous year with the 999 "demolition derby". Instead of thanking Monte (the owner of Sportbike Tracktime who was in charge of logistics for the day) for bringing out a sufficient number of control riders, everybody felt completely unwanted, completely unappreciated and downright insulted by the DNA representative. I was mortified since I knew two of them had Desmosedicis on order and another one had a 1098R coming - these guys were some of the BEST Ducati customers in N. California and were treated worse than busboys in a restaurant. They took a day off work, drove hundreds of miles, one even flew there, brought their own Ducati racebikes and burned up their own gas, so the thanks they got was to be treated like DIRT by this character.
So I politely disagree with you that "the truth lies somewhere in between" - I only referred to the behavior in the pits and it was completely inexcusable.
As far as things I saw on the track... hmm, ironically the only riding I saw out there that I didn't really think was appropriate was Doug Polen with a passenger, getting a little too aggressive and screwing with the rear brake around much slower riders - it wouldn't freak me out after 15 years of racing but I thought it was a bit much for the rest of the group. The DNA guys just brushed it off as "oh yeah, that's just Doug" but obviously if Pat did the exact same thing they lost their mind and threw him out. :wtf Oh yeah, and then there was another dealer in the hot pits who lit up the rear tire for about 10 seconds while waiting to get on the track - I think somebody mentioned he was named "dealer of the year" the previous evening, so nothing was done about that either.
To contrast this horrible experience, I've also been in charge of staffing the Kawasaki events at Infineon after the AMA races and those guys are absolutely awesome. They are very thankful you're there to help out, they introduce you to everybody and they could care less if you're out there riding a Kawi or not (the Ducati guys lost their minds just over Matt Green having a Desmoto sticker on his bike and actually made him tape over the decal, so I didn't even dare bring out my ZX10R from the trailer). This year I had a chance to ride with legends like Gary Nixon and Jay Springsteen - shared some local track secrets and then the old guys smoked me on their ZX10s and ZX6s. Nixon even came over to taunt me and say "man, you need a bigger bike" since I was riding the girlie-SV650... :teeth Jason Britton was also out there, even Greg White from SPEED came out to ride. Everybody had a blast, everybody was cool and even when Cory destroyed that ZX14 in T1 nobody really lost their mind (especially once they found out it was a private party bike, not one of the Kawi demo bikes... :teeth)
Based on these two experiences, I will continue owning and buying Kawis in the future, but I no longer have a Ducati in my garage and don't plan on buying another one. :thumbdown
tracksidemoto
Banned
Johnny B.,
Not sure who your Friend Tom was but if that happened and it was actually one of the control riders and not one of the few Favored guest who had a control shirt on then it was totally Bull Shit. There is no excuse for stuffing somebody coming into a corner at one of these events. You are right it was not a race or even a race practice and I do not think it is cool even if it was. It is up to the passer to pull it off clean and if you can't don't do it! I know that some times shit happens but at an event like this one there is NO EXCUSE for that.
As for the rules, I didn't agree with not using the RED FLAG. They didn't want to stop bikes on course but at Laguna there is a few spots were you can not see the course in front of you and if some body was down in the middle of the track not moving there was no way to get the riders stopped. Fortunately this was not an issue but I still disagree with the decision. There were other things that did not sit well with any of the volunteer control riders. It has been just over a year but I might be able to remember some more of the silly shit that went on that day if you really need to hear it.
Alex (afmotorsports) did a great job rounding up some help for this event. He worked his ass off both that day and leading up to this event and all he got was thrown under the bus for his efforts. Every body he rounded up to help out at this event had plenty of on track experience both as a track day provider/rider and a racer. All of us have many years on track working as instructors and control riders for some of the best track day organizations in the country. As I mentioned I went there to offer my experience as a rider, racer and track day organizer so that this event would be positive and fun for all. It was about a $400.00 trip and three days off work for me and I did it because of my love for the sport and my love for Ducati. I did not expect any thing in return and I did not get anything for my troubles, not even a Thank You!
It was worth the trip just to meet Troy Bayless. Very cool guy, humble no chip on his shoulder. He was so casual standing around that I didn't think it was him. He was a pretty down to earth guy and was plenty happy talking to us about our amateur racing and even gave a few of us some good ideas to improve our game.
All the dealers and riders I met and worked with were really cool folks and I had a great time hanging out with them. I made some new friends and got to see many old ones. I think the whole idea was a good one unfortunately the guys running it did not have any idea how to run a track day. That is why we were there but they refused to listen to some of the most experienced Track day providers in the country. It is very frustrating when you are there to help but they refuse to let you and instead you have to sit and watch some crazy shit going down. The crashed 1098 that went out on track and dumped oil from turn 3 on through the corkscrew was a no brainer. Who ever tech'ed that bike and sent it back out on track didn't have a clue!
Ok, I'm off to Thunder Hill. Tomorrow is our last Pacific Track Time track day of the year. The 2008 season went by so fast I can't believe it is almost over. One more race then it's all about dirt bikes and maybe some racing down Under. I had some great times this year and I have to thank every body who shared it with me.
NOW, LET'S RIDE!!!
Pat Blackburn
afm 110
Trackside Moto
Not sure who your Friend Tom was but if that happened and it was actually one of the control riders and not one of the few Favored guest who had a control shirt on then it was totally Bull Shit. There is no excuse for stuffing somebody coming into a corner at one of these events. You are right it was not a race or even a race practice and I do not think it is cool even if it was. It is up to the passer to pull it off clean and if you can't don't do it! I know that some times shit happens but at an event like this one there is NO EXCUSE for that.
As for the rules, I didn't agree with not using the RED FLAG. They didn't want to stop bikes on course but at Laguna there is a few spots were you can not see the course in front of you and if some body was down in the middle of the track not moving there was no way to get the riders stopped. Fortunately this was not an issue but I still disagree with the decision. There were other things that did not sit well with any of the volunteer control riders. It has been just over a year but I might be able to remember some more of the silly shit that went on that day if you really need to hear it.
Alex (afmotorsports) did a great job rounding up some help for this event. He worked his ass off both that day and leading up to this event and all he got was thrown under the bus for his efforts. Every body he rounded up to help out at this event had plenty of on track experience both as a track day provider/rider and a racer. All of us have many years on track working as instructors and control riders for some of the best track day organizations in the country. As I mentioned I went there to offer my experience as a rider, racer and track day organizer so that this event would be positive and fun for all. It was about a $400.00 trip and three days off work for me and I did it because of my love for the sport and my love for Ducati. I did not expect any thing in return and I did not get anything for my troubles, not even a Thank You!
It was worth the trip just to meet Troy Bayless. Very cool guy, humble no chip on his shoulder. He was so casual standing around that I didn't think it was him. He was a pretty down to earth guy and was plenty happy talking to us about our amateur racing and even gave a few of us some good ideas to improve our game.
All the dealers and riders I met and worked with were really cool folks and I had a great time hanging out with them. I made some new friends and got to see many old ones. I think the whole idea was a good one unfortunately the guys running it did not have any idea how to run a track day. That is why we were there but they refused to listen to some of the most experienced Track day providers in the country. It is very frustrating when you are there to help but they refuse to let you and instead you have to sit and watch some crazy shit going down. The crashed 1098 that went out on track and dumped oil from turn 3 on through the corkscrew was a no brainer. Who ever tech'ed that bike and sent it back out on track didn't have a clue!
Ok, I'm off to Thunder Hill. Tomorrow is our last Pacific Track Time track day of the year. The 2008 season went by so fast I can't believe it is almost over. One more race then it's all about dirt bikes and maybe some racing down Under. I had some great times this year and I have to thank every body who shared it with me.
NOW, LET'S RIDE!!!
Pat Blackburn
afm 110
Trackside Moto
Seesm
All love no fight....
tracksidemoto
Banned
Hey Alex, sounds like we had the same thing on our minds this evening. Now that the RC8 has hit the seen I might be giving up the duc's as well but I'm sure the guy's at DNA will not miss me. I'm only good for 1 or 2 new Ducati's a year!!! Come on RC8!!!
Glad to hear you guys had good times at the Kawi day. I heard some good stories but had to miss that one. Maybe I should give one of them ZX'S a try!!!!
See you at Bwillow, Pat
Glad to hear you guys had good times at the Kawi day. I heard some good stories but had to miss that one. Maybe I should give one of them ZX'S a try!!!!
See you at Bwillow, Pat
tracksidemoto
Banned
Hey Craig, That was Cory's eveil twin and he was riding the Devil himselfs bike!!!
Seesm
All love no fight....
Nice...
Wish I was gonna ride with you all tomorrow maybe next year if we ride at all... Much love!!
Ducky_Fresh
Treasure Hunter
IMO, you're nuts if you get that KTM over the new Aprillia.
The Aprillia RSV4 is practically a motogp bike. Have you seen the race ready version? :wow
The Aprillia RSV4 is practically a motogp bike. Have you seen the race ready version? :wow
MrCrash
King of FAIL
Maybe they really enjoy racing Open Twins, and want to stay in the class?
On the other hand, gotta agree that the new Aprilia is freakin hot...
Hwy1&17
Eddy would go
couldn't have happened at the Laguna day cause there was absolutely no passing :rofl not even if the rider was coming to a complete stop at the entrace to the corkscrew with twenty bikes behind him. :thumbdown
Johnny B.
Animal Hill Motard Champ
My general rule of thumb is that control riders can let loose during the most experienced session (Still following normal rules like passing only on the outside, etc.) but they must be on their best behavior during the less experienced rider sessions. I expect them to be doing one-on-one with the riders or trolling for those who need help. Good example was me not allowing Jeff Wood out onto the track without a student in tow during Penguin School in Homestead.
I've been doing control for Dunbar Euro-Sports track days since about 1990, came on board with the Penguin School for their Florida swings, two day schools and Ducati REVS days in 2002. In addition to all that, I've been LRRS Chief Pit Steward since 2001. I can't speak for others, but I have learned to have infinite patience in the face of very trying circumstances. My warped sense of humor dictates that I'll just smile and say nothing when I am the target of serious abuse. Makes them look real stupid to the casual observer. :teeth (Larry Pegram at the 2002 Loudon Classic comes to mind.)
I'm not going to address whatever interaction there was in the paddock, but the fact that a customer got stuffed by a control rider (Verified when he was talked to in the paddock) tells me that something was going wrong out on the track. We don't seem to have any real problems in Florida, we recruit the locals like Darren Luck and Greg Melka when we're at Homestead. I've gotten to know them a little over the years, never have any real problems. We just have to remind them that they are dealing with n00bs and try to get them to remember what it was like when they were n00bs.
TWF
training hard
you talking track days?this was not track day.no experienced or not experienced groups.just groups.
like I said,this dealers were falling down on their own so bad that they had to stop it and have meeting again.control riders had nothing to do with it except been yelled at.
I can't tell who did what,I think I was probably only one not yelled at,last man standing
Ducky_Fresh
Treasure Hunter
Amazing, Zoran not yelled at?
tracksidemoto
Banned
Zoran they didn't yell at you because you had the sweetest looking Ducati out there!!! I think it was the awesome body work that kept you out of trouble!!!
Johnny B.
To bad they did not know about your boys from Florida. They could have asked them to fly themselves out here to Laguna and then they would not have had any problems!!! I think You should be sure and let DNA know next year so they don't make the same mistake again!!!
Johnny B.
To bad they did not know about your boys from Florida. They could have asked them to fly themselves out here to Laguna and then they would not have had any problems!!! I think You should be sure and let DNA know next year so they don't make the same mistake again!!!
TWF
training hard
well,it was worst bike I had in garage :laughing
BobBlack
Legomaniac
Ducky_Fresh
Treasure Hunter
Laguna is epic though..
They totally dangled the carrot on Pat and he took the bait!!!
Sucks that the guy from Ducati had to be a total D-bag.
They totally dangled the carrot on Pat and he took the bait!!!
Sucks that the guy from Ducati had to be a total D-bag.