i ate it on hwy9 and got real well acquainted with the road

[TVC15]

Using only the rear brake when in a situation like this (in too hot and subsequent panic) is not a good technique at all.

I did not mean to give the impression to only use the back brake in this situation ....I am saying that only using the front brakes in this situation was a big mistake. Tapping the rear brake as you are also using the front brake helps to slow the bike safely in a cornering situation.

In non-cornering situations I use both my brakes as evenly as possible.

 

[Enchanter]

Tapping, like repeatedly apply, release, re-apply?

 

[latindane]

Why did you use your front brake? It's best to tap the back brake to slow down in turns. When I took my motorcycle safety course many years ago this was a heavily stressed concept.

http://www.sportrider.com/sportbike-riding/riding-skills-series-using-rear-brake

I liked the article that you linked to. The OP was not in a turn yet though, and it is very unlikely that using the rear brake as well would have helped in this instance. I do agree that training yourself to use both is a good idea, but is probably not relevant to this incident.

 

[TVC15]

Tapping, like repeatedly apply, release, re-apply?

No you do it in a gentle gradual controlled manner. If you are in a curve (not on a race track) and are going too fast and need to correct quickly grabbing and only applying the front brakes will likely lead to a crash.

You should be tapping the back brakes at the same time you are smoothly applying the front brakes.

Try it in the mountain and see for yourself how nicely this works.


Breaking in a Corner: Touch the back brake

When your speed is just a little bit too fast for feeling comfortable, simply touch the back brake. Not hard of course, but just gently touch it with your foot. Your motorcycle will steer even more into the corner and will not try to straighten up, so touching the back brake is never a problem for your line, and for cornering fluently.

http://www.lazymotorbike.eu/tips/corners/#brake

 

[TVC15]

I liked the article that you linked to. The OP was not in a turn yet though, and it is very unlikely that using the rear brake as well would have helped in this instance. I do agree that training yourself to use both is a good idea, but is probably not relevant to this incident.

Ah maybe I misread...I thought he was just entering the curve when this occurred.

Yes applying both brakes evenly is a very good habit that I have always used since learning about the importance of it.

I have a very nice mechanic in SF who just replaced my rear brakes...he told me that he never uses his back brakes...and encouraged me to do the same! I was stunned! :wtf

 

[Enchanter]

Yes and in a gentle controlled manner. If you are in a curve (not on a race track) and are going too fast and need to correct quickly grabbing and only applying the front brakes will likely lead to a crash.

You should be tapping the back brakes at the same time you are smoothly applying the front brakes.

Try it in the mountain and see for yourself and nicely this works.


Breaking in a Corner: Touch the back brake

When your speed is just a little bit too fast for feeling comfortable, simply touch the back brake. Not hard of course, but just gently touch it with your foot. Your motorcycle will steer even more into the corner and will not try to straighten up, so touching the back brake is never a problem for your line, and for cornering fluently.

http://www.lazymotorbike.eu/tips/corners/#brake

Consider that tapping, and touching are different.

That website is weak at best. While they refer to countersteering, they do a very poor job of describing it, and then go into great detail about how to use your knee and butt to turn. That's poor, very poor advice.

 

[TVC15]

Consider that tapping, and touching are different.

Tapping just means gently touching the back brakes.

 

[TVC15]

Consider that tapping, and touching are different.

That website is weak at best. While they refer to countersteering, they do a very poor job of describing it, and then go into great detail about how to use your knee and butt to turn. That's poor, very poor advice.

I only meant to take the part about tapping/gently touching the back brakes during cornering. I did not read the other advice given....it may be a weak website but they nailed it with respect to how to apply the back brakes when cornering.

Forget learning from a website. I would recommend taking an advanced MSF motorcycle class to learn good riding habits. I never thought it was necessary since I learned to ride when I was 8. However when I took the class I learned things that I would have never thought about and that most riders never think about.

 

[Enchanter]

After spending most of my adult life involved in motorcycle training, I've become a huge proponent of using words that convey a singular meaning whenever possible. As an example, I never say 'grab' when referring to the brakes.

The term 'tap' conveys a message of repeated action. Have you ever tapped your foot to the beat of music? Did your foot press lightly on the floor and stay there, or did you lift it and press again, repeatedly?

That website has advice for motorcycling to be sure, but their described method of braking is one of many acceptable techniques. There are occasions where singular brake application is the best choice. It is up to the rider to educate themselves to know which technique is best. I'm a huge proponent of rear brake use, but it would be foolish to assume that it is the best method for every situation.

 

[TVC15]

After spending most of my adult life involved in motorcycle training, I've become a huge proponent of using words that convey a singular meaning whenever possible. As an example, I never say 'grab' when referring to the brakes.

The term 'tap' conveys a message of repeated action. Have you ever tapped your foot to the beat of music?

That website has advice for motorcycling to be sure, but their described method of braking is one of many acceptable techniques. There are occasions where singular brake application is the best choice. It is up to the rider to educate themselves to know which technique is best. I'm a huge proponent of rear brake use, but it would be foolish to assume that it is the best method for every situation.

Tap can mean repetitive or it can mean a single touch. I have a touch screen monitor and I simply tap it when I want to click on something. I don't repetitively tap just a single gentle tap.

When I tap someone on the shoulder it is not a repetitive tap tap tap...it is a single gentle tap/touch.

I am not sure where you get the notion that I am suggesting that using the rear brake is the best method for every situation? I never suggest this.

 

[Enchanter]

Tap can mean repetitive or it can mean a single touch. I have a touch screen monitor and I simply tap it when I want to click on something. I don't repetitively tap just a single gentle tap.

When I tap someone on the shoulder it is not a repetitive tap tap tap...it is a single gentle tap/touch.

You're missing the point in an effort to defend yourself. When teaching or sharing information, using a term that has two different meanings is not a good idea. It is confusing to the listener / reader.When you "tap" your monitor, or the shoulder of another person, do you press and hold, or touch and release? You are suggesting something different for the use of the rear brake, than you are in your examples. That is the issue.

I am not sure where you get the notion that I am suggesting that using the rear brake is the best method for every situation? I never suggest this.

What do you expect readers to assume when you state?

they nailed it with respect to how to apply the back brakes when cornering.

They nailed nothing.

 

[TVC15]

When you "tap" your monitor, or the shoulder of another person, do you press and hold, or touch and release? I suggest that you are suggesting something different for the use of the rear brake, than you are in your examples. That is the issue.



What do you expect readers to assume when you state?

They nailed nothing.

When cornering too fast gently taping the rear brakes is a very safe thing to do in order to slow down your speed. I have successfully used this technique many times.

I learned the value of this technique from a MSF safety course.

I am not understanding the issue you are having with me using the word tap.

Tapping the brakes is another way of saying gently applying the brakes but not applying a hold to the brakes.

 

[Enchanter]

Since you keep referring to the MSF, I'll share my background. I've been an MSF Instructor / Ridercoach since 1989, I teach the Basic Ridercourse, The Experienced Ridercourse, Advanced Ridercourse, and Military Sportbike Ridercourses.

Repeated application, release, reapplication, (repeat) is a poor technique. It introduces multiple adjustments and shifts in traction and traction management exactly when this should be avoided at all costs.

As for 'tap' vs 'press' I don't know how else to convey that using a term with two meanings is not an ideal way to communicate your intention. In this case, it make s sense to you because you advocate application, release, reaply and repeat, when it comes to the rear brake.

 

[TVC15]

http://www.msf-usa.org/downloads/Street_Motorcycle_Tips.pdf

Breaking While Leaned into a Curve:

You can brake (with both brakes) while leaned over, but you must do it gradually and with less force than if the bike is standing up straight.

 

[Enchanter]

http://www.msf-usa.org/downloads/Street_Motorcycle_Tips.pdf

Breaking While Leaned into a Curve:

You can brake (with both brakes) while leaned over, but you must do it gradually and with less force than if the bike is standing up straight.

Does it say to repeatedly release and reapply (TAP)?

Let's clarify our disagreements since you seem to have misunderstood me:

Repeated application and release of the rear brake while cornering, is unsafe.

The word 'tap' conveys a a specific action or application that is unclear.

 

[TVC15]

Since you keep referring to the MSF, I'll share my background. I've been an MSF Instructor / Ridercoach since 1989, I teach the Basic Ridercourse, The Experienced Ridercourse, Advanced Ridercourse, and Military Sportbike Ridercourses.

Repeated application, release, reapplication, (repeat) is a poor technique. It introduces multiple adjustments and shifts in traction and traction management exactly when this should be avoided at all costs.

As for 'tap' vs 'press' I don't know how else to convey that using a term with two meanings is not an ideal way to communicate your intention.

OK let me say this one more time:

I never said to quickly and repetitively tap your rear brakes. You tap as needed when you are adjusting through the curve until you have control. You don't just press on the rear brakes and hold that press. You let up as needed...thus the use of the term tap is appropriate.

 

[Ahab]

Tapping the rear brack with a single, short, light touch won't slow you down much. Might as well have rolled off, or just keep going

 

[Sticka]

OK let me say this one more time:

I never said to quickly and repetitively tap your rear brakes..

Ummm...yes you did, but you just went back and edited it out.

 

[TVC15]

Ummm...yes you did, but you just went back and edited it out.

Yes to correct my misunderstanding of your words.

 

[Enchanter]

OK let me say this one more time:

I never said to quickly and repetitively tap your rear brakes. You tap as needed when you are adjusting through the curve until you have control. You don't just press on the rear brakes and hold that press. You let up as needed...thus the use of the term tap is appropriate.

You answered my initial question:

Tapping, like repeatedly apply, release, re-apply?

with this response:

Yes and in a controlled manner.

You then went and edited your post.

And no, the term 'tap' in not appropriate.