i ate it on hwy9 and got real well acquainted with the road

[shrimants]

TL;DR: while i was riding, i felt i was in control. in reality, i was not in control and i was riding past my limit. this crash was caused by my own inflated ego and cockiness.

we were up on hwy 9. i was following behind the lead at a spirited but not overly fast/uncomfortable pace. first sign of danger was a HUGE pile of pine needle crap in the middle of the lane. this was just before a curve. we slowed down and then there were 2 (maybe 3) cars in front of us driving 25 or so (posted limit).

Guy in front goosed it and managed to pass both. I goosed it and passed the first truck. The SUV in front saw that i was trying to pass as well and moved over.

This is the part where im a complete fucking retard and brought this upon myself.

I saw my buddy accelerating away instead of seeing the condition of the turn (didnt look through the turn). i gave it throttle but didnt downshift. passing took me longer than i anticipated.

At this point im going abotu 10-15 faster than the SUV, i'd say. Only then did i notice "Hey, there is a turn coming up in practically no time at all, and im definitely not ready for it".

I braked HARD with front brake because there was no way im making that turn going the speed i was at this point. Since i was passing the SUV, i was on/around the yellow line and i didnt notice all the pine needle BS laying in the middle of the road.

Front wheel immediately wobbled and locked up, bike was dumped before i could even think to release the brakes.

I felt myself get ragdolled and spinning about on the road. helmet hit the road HARD but i was fine. left knee hit the road really hard and took the majority of impact. Thanks ot the leather pants i was wearing i didnt even feel it. i got flung into the guard rail, knowing there was an SUV and a motorcycle hurtling towards me, and possibly a truck behind that SUV that might ruin any stopping the SUV tried to do.

Luckily every single one of them completely missed/avoided me.

Luckily, i didnt go over/under the guard rail and off the side of the mountain.

Luckily, my bike didnt go flying over the guard rail.

I got way luckier than i have any right to be after the stupidity of today's ride.

TL;DR: enjoy the ride and the view. look through the turn. ride at your pace, not someone else's. ATGATT. Full coverage insurance next time.

Gonna be a while before i can afford another bike. got a lot of other savings/budgets i have to account for before i can try saving for a bike.

 

[shrimants]

if the pass was on a straightaway it would have been fine-ish. either way, it was a double yellow (flag number 1) and i couldnt really see around the suv (flag number 2).

good old fashioned human stupidity is all this was.

 

[i_am_the_koi]

So passing multiple cars, on the DY, trying to keep up with a buddy....

What are we analyzing??? Also, are we really going to say the pine needles had anything to do with the crash?

 

[shrimants]

no, you're right. i must have been passing 30 cars instead of just the 1, and i was doing a wheelie through a flaming hoop over a pit of tigers too. you were there, it would have been awesome if i landed it. you saw it happen right? pine needles TOTALLY didnt have anything to do with it.

 

[Enchanter]

So passing multiple cars, on the DY, trying to keep up with a buddy....

What are we analyzing??? Also, are we really going to say the pine needles had anything to do with the crash?

The intent of the CA forum is to make it a 'safe' place for people to come and discuss their crash. Let's not use sarcasm or treat the OP poorly. Please help the OP by offering advice or suggesting ways to avoid this in the future.

no, you're right. i must have been passing 30 cars instead of just the 1, and i was doing a wheelie through a flaming hoop over a pit of tigers too. you were there, it would have been awesome if i landed it. you saw it happen right? pine needles TOTALLY didnt have anything to do with it.

That goes for you too. If you don't want continued poor responses, ignore them (especially in this forum).

Let's bring this thread back on topic. Don't take pokes/stab the OP. If your reply doesn't offer help with skills (mental or physical) related to crash analysis, your post will be removed.

 

[i_am_the_koi]

no, you're right. i must have been passing 30 cars instead of just the 1, and i was doing a wheelie through a flaming hoop over a pit of tigers too. you were there, it would have been awesome if i landed it. you saw it happen right? pine needles TOTALLY didnt have anything to do with it.

Well let's think about what you wrote and how it's perceived to the reader.

i was following behind the lead at a spirited but not overly fast/uncomfortable pace. I was trying to keep up with quicker riders

first sign of danger was a HUGE pile of pine needle crap in the middle of the lane. this was just before a curve. Conditions weren't perfect

Guy in front goosed it and managed to pass both. I goosed it and passed the first truck. I was trying to keep up with quicker riders while passing on the DY

This is the part where im a complete fucking retard and brought this upon myself. Truuf

I saw my buddy accelerating away instead of seeing the condition of the turn (didnt look through the turn). i gave it throttle but didnt downshift. passing took me longer than i anticipated. I was going to fast and not paying enough attention to the conditions or the road

At this point im going abotu 10-15 faster than the SUV, i'd say. Only then did i notice "Hey, there is a turn coming up in practically no time at all, and im definitely not ready for it". I was going too fast

I braked HARD with front brake because there was no way im making that turn going the speed i was at this point. Since i was passing the SUV, i was on/around the yellow line and i didnt notice all the pine needle BS laying in the middle of the road. I still was passing on the DY, going too fast for conditions while attempting to complete a bonehead move and trying to keep up with quicker riders putting other motorist in danger as well as myself

.

Is that about right or am I missing where the pine needles jumped out of nowhere and caused the accident despite your best efforts?

In an effort to Help per Enchanter: Do you think speed was an issue here? Sounds like you were above the posted speed limit trying to pass some cars? Had you been going the speed limit would the pine needles had the same effect?

 

[Lunch Box]

Koi's delivery could have been better, but I am inclined to agree with his sentiment. I like that you seem to understand that this incident was entirely your fault, as stated. I don't like that you seem to believe that the pine needle debris was a contributing factor. If you are pushing enough to where you "had to" grab a fist full of front brake, then you were clearly outriding your skill level. It sounds like you were still across or on the double yellow at the entrance to the corner, which indicates that you would have been completely screwed if someone had come around that corner in the opposite direction while you were executing your pass.

The way you describe it, you grabbed a fist full of front brake and lost the front immediately. It also sounds like you were likely on the yellow paint at the time, which can be slick (especially when damp). I would wager that a fast but smooth application of front brake would have been a non-issue, but I wasn't there. It also sounds like you were lucky that the SUV didn't ass pack you. Slamming on the brakes immediately after completing a pass is a REALLY good way to get hit from behind. It might have actually been a good thing that you went down, as your deceleration rate was likely a bit lower than it would have been under proper hard braking.

Ultimately, this sounds like it came down to a series of poor decisions, combined with insufficient experience/skill. Pine needles were not the issue here, I'm afraid.

 

[shrimants]

not on the mellow ride, this was just a small thing with me and 2 others.

whatever you guys say, pine needles had nothing to do with it. you're right.

 

[Lunch Box]

whatever you guys say, pine needles had nothing to do with it. you're right.

I have to wonder why you posted in this sub-forum if you weren't going to take the responses seriously. It sounds like it is likely a good thing that you won't be riding again for awhile, though. Hopefully, you will have time to assess things a bit more in the meantime.

 

[shrimants]

I have to wonder why you posted in this sub-forum if you weren't going to take the responses seriously. It sounds like it is likely a good thing that you won't be riding again for awhile, though. Hopefully, you will have time to assess things a bit more in the meantime.

ive already admitted fault and stated that i was going too fast, making an unsafe turn, riding past my limits, and had crappy throttle/brake control.

im also saying that while i was braking hard, the bike was still stable until i hit a patch of debris along the middle of the road (and i shouldnt have been on the middle of the road if i was making a safe pass anyways). i wasnt braking hard enough to lock the front wheel if that patch wasnt there. it locked the moment i hit the crud.

not really sure why you guys are so hell bent on taking pine needles out of the equation. i hit the patch, everything slid immediately. probably would have ate shit anyways if there wasnt debris but thats what happened.

 

[Enchanter]

not on the mellow ride, this was just a small thing with me and 2 others.

whatever you guys say, pine needles had nothing to do with it. you're right.

I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or not...

See, the thing is, the pine needles really weren't the issue. Had you not chosen to pass in an area of much higher risk, then you never would have encountered them in the first place.

We really don't have to keep up with the other riders. If you really want to, you can wait for a much safer place to pass.

 

[shrimants]

I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or not...

See, the thing is, the pine needles really weren't the issue. Had you not chosen to pass in an area of much higher risk, then you never would have encountered them in the first place.

We really don't have to keep up with the other riders. If you really want to, you can wait for a much safer place to pass.

right. if you read the initial post, you'll see im admitting fault here. i passed stupidly and i was riding too fast. the entire situation was avoidable.

the only thing im saying about pine needles is that they were present in the middle of the road, not a lot of them but enough. i braked and as soon as my wheel made contact with the needles the front wheel locked.

im not saying its the pine needles' fault i went down. its my fault i went down. there were at least 5 different things i did that i shouldnt have done that put me close to the pine needles.

honestly, its like if i drove into a wall and posted "yeah, im stupid, popped the clutch, lost control, hit a wall" and you guys are saying "oh SURE you hit a wall. did the wall really have anything to do with it?"

no. it didnt. i crashed because im a jackass. the pine needles is just one tidbit i remember, as is the guard rail, as is the road. the pine needles have as much to do with me crashing as the road or the guard rail does. its just something i hit while i was doing something stupid.

the fault is my own. hope you guys dont think im trying to blame anything but myself here.

 

[Enchanter]

not really sure why you guys are so hell bent on taking pine needles out of the equation.

Because of this:

probably would have ate shit anyways if there wasnt debris but thats what happened.

The events that led up to the crash began many minutes and many turns prior to the actual crash. That is what we're trying to tell you. Once you are in the middle of the pass, in a curve, in the oncoming lane, crossing the double yellow, it's too late to make adjustments. You have to make them long before that.

 

[Enchanter]

right. if you read the initial post, you'll see im admitting fault here. i passed stupidly and i was riding too fast. the entire situation was avoidable.

the only thing im saying about pine needles is that they were present in the middle of the road, not a lot of them but enough. i braked and as soon as my wheel made contact with the needles the front wheel locked.

im not saying its the pine needles' fault i went down. its my fault i went down. there were at least 5 different things i did that i shouldnt have done that put me close to the pine needles.

honestly, its like if i drove into a wall and posted "yeah, im stupid, popped the clutch, lost control, hit a wall" and you guys are saying "oh SURE you hit a wall. did the wall really have anything to do with it?"

no. it didnt. i crashed because im a jackass. the pine needles is just one tidbit i remember, as is the guard rail, as is the road. the pine needles have as much to do with me crashing as the road or the guard rail does. its just something i hit while i was doing something stupid.

the fault is my own. hope you guys dont think im trying to blame anything but myself here.

Admitting fault isn't going to prevent this from happening again. We need to find the moment where it all started. That is the point of the CA Forum.

Let's back up to 10min before the crash. In retrospect, were there any clues that you were feeling? Did you feel the urge to stay with the guys ahead of you?

How about 5min before the crash? 2min? That is where you should be placing your focus on prevention. That is where the events that led to the crash started.

 

[shrimants]

Because of this:


The events that led up to the crash began many minutes and many turns prior to the actual crash. That is what we're trying to tell you. Once you are in the middle of the pass, in a curve, in the oncoming lane, crossing the double yellow, it's too late to make adjustments. You have to make them long before that.

right, i understand that. i already said this too. while i was riding, i felt i was in control. in reality, i was not in control and i was riding past my limit. this crash was caused by my own inflated ego and cockiness.

 

[carries an axe]

right, i understand that. i already said this too. while i was riding, i felt i was in control. in reality, i was not in control and i was riding past my limit. this crash was caused by my own inflated ego and cockiness.

i'm not trying to beat the dead horse here but you should've opened with that.

posting any sort of extenuating circumstance that distracts from your taking responsibility prevents any lessons learned.

 

[shrimants]

Let's back up to 10min before the crash. In retrospect, were there any clues that you were feeling? Did you feel the urge to stay with the guys ahead of you?

How about 5min before the crash? 2min? That is where you should be placing your focus on prevention. That is where the events that led to the crash started.

definitely was trying to keep up. i felt like i had something to prove by keeping up, and i was managing to keep up. there were numerous times when something in my head said "dude, you're not feeling comfortable" and i stupidly ignored it and wrote it off as adrenalin or excitement or w/e.

there were a couple of passes the guy in front made that i straight up noped out of. there were a LOT of cars. the first run up the road was supposed to be liesurely and chill to get a feel for the road but the guy in front was tearing through it all and i was keeping up.

there were tons of cars and i think because i had to slow down and wait for a passing opportunity, i didnt realize how hard i was pushing myself.

about 2-3 minutes before the crash i noticed the road getting really dirty. this should have clued me in and told me to take it down a few notches but i igored that too. sheer amount of traffic on the road should have told me to take it down a few notches too, but i ignored that too. rider in front slowed down drastically at one particular turn and stuck his leg out to warn of road debris but after that chunk it sort of cleared up. i still noticed a ton of crap on the yellow line, but the road itself was otherwise clear.

right before the crash, the rider in front found an opportunity to pass 2 cars at once. i waited, passed one car, waited, passed the second car, hit the brakes, crashed.

 

[shrimants]

i'm not trying to beat the dead horse here but you should've opened with that.

posting any sort of extenuating circumstance that distracts from your taking responsibility prevents any lessons learned.

Edited OP

 

[carries an axe]

:thumbup

 

[PorradaVFR]

posting any sort of extenuating circumstance that distracts from your taking responsibility prevents any lessons learned.

Exactly. :thumbup

OP - nobody is saying the pine needled helped the situation, but they're nothing more than an incidental factor at best. Had they not been there you may have remained vertical for a longer period of time, but as you noted (and have acknowledged) you were already in a world of shit. Had it not been the pine needles it might have been a Bott's dot, the DY itself or perhaps some snail poop or a butterfly's fart - and none of those would have changed the fact that but for your decisions leading up to them you would have not made contact with them at all.

I had a fall years ago because I cut a corner and transitioned from asphalt to concrete...and failed to notice the fine sand on the concrete that was slick as ice. The sand "caused" me to lose traction, yes - but the only reason I ever touched it was my own bad judgement. It was my bad, 100%.