Honda Production MOTOGP racer first look

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LongGoneJohn

Gone
I hope you're right, sinncere. I get tired of the rules changing and changing and changing.

Just grow a pair, force everyone run a spec "10 point" traction control unit that piggy backs onto their own fuel management ecu. No millions of calculations to change the system for each corner, figuring out where it is on track,etc, etc. Then even the small teams could find a way to program it -- and if not, a rider could outride it anyway, since it's not so complicated that no one can.

Give everyone 24 liters and the same weight and be done. Then leave the rules alone for a decade.

I'm confident the non-MSMA teams would be competitive, immediately. Then the MSMA teams would see they don't need to spend the $$ on a full factory team, would put money into engine development only and send that off to the non-MSMA teams and we'd be left with an F1-style grid, filled with $500k - $1m bikes that are competitve, instead of $6m POS bikes that can never be competitive.
 
Spec-ECU

Spec-ECU

required protocol
All in due time, I would think (and hope as well). I remember RaptorFA getting emotional the other day and writing that he wishes Ezpeleta would say "enough," when in reality, Ezpeleta already has, and thus the CRT's, and thus the imposed price cap on the production racers and leased engines from the MSMA, thus the spec electronics/software for non-MSMA, etc.
 
stangmx13

stangmx13

not Stan
sinncere said:
All in due time, I would think (and hope as well). I remember RaptorFA getting emotional the other day and writing that he wishes Ezpeleta would say "enough," when in reality, Ezpeleta already has, and thus the CRT's, and thus the imposed price cap on the production racers and leased engines from the MSMA, thus the spec electronics/software for non-MSMA, etc.
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yep, he already has. it unfortunately has taken a couple of years to exert any control over the factories. i think the rules are now stable, but they will change a little bit for next year. Carmelo has a plan laid out, it just cant be accomplished in one winter.

btw, Antarius, the factories dont want 24L. Carmelo traded the 20L and software rules for them producing proddy-bikes and/or leasing engines. IMO, it was a great deal for Carmelo.
 
kevin 714

kevin 714

Well-known member
It's actually amazing what Carmelo has accomplished in basically two seasons. He played a strong hand and Honda and yamaha bowed down
 
DaveT319

DaveT319

Marquez FTW
kevin 714 said:
testing costs a lot of money. a LOT. thats why dorna caped the amoiunt of non sanctioned test days you can do, because its CRAZY $$
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Sure it does, but they should let the non-MSMA teams decide if they want to spend that money. How else are they supposed to try to catch up? Or is that the point, that they don't catch up?
 
kevin 714

kevin 714

Well-known member
DaveT319 said:
Sure it does, but they should let the non-MSMA teams decide if they want to spend that money. How else are they supposed to try to catch up? Or is that the point, that they don't catch up?
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I dont think you realize what I meant,. CRT teams run CRT because they dont have a lot of money. they couldnt afford it. hell even ducati couldnt afford the austin test, and yamaha begrudgingly went and complained about cost.

team aspar and avinta blusens dont have the money if they wanted to. its just not possible for those teams to run private tests even more than teams do now. thats why dorna should organize prvateer test days, paying the track rebntal fees and use centrally located euro tracks for it. dorna already pays a HUGE portion of those teams costs anyway.

Im not saying they shouldnt get test days, they should. its just that they CAN'T. not nearly as much as the factories. a few dorna sponsored days would do wonders I am sure.
 
DaveT319

DaveT319

Marquez FTW
kevin 714 said:
I dont think you realize what I meant,. CRT teams run CRT because they dont have a lot of money. they couldnt afford it. hell even ducati couldnt afford the austin test, and yamaha begrudgingly went and complained about cost.

team aspar and avinta blusens dont have the money if they wanted to. its just not possible for those teams to run private tests even more than teams do now. thats why dorna should organize prvateer test days, paying the track rebntal fees and use centrally located euro tracks for it. dorna already pays a HUGE portion of those teams costs anyway.

Im not saying they shouldnt get test days, they should. its just that they CAN'T. not nearly as much as the factories. a few dorna sponsored days would do wonders I am sure.
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But at the same time you're saying even if they could they can't because it's in the rules. I'm just saying take the rule out for CRTs (or non-MSMA, or privateer, or whatever you want to call them) and let THEM decide if they can come up with the money or not. Don't handcuff them with the rules, and then try to say "well, they couldn't afford it anyway, so it's fine". Leave the choice to them to try to find the money or not. This way it almost makes sure that they can't catch up.
 
kevin 714

kevin 714

Well-known member
DaveT319 said:
But at the same time you're saying even if they could they can't because it's in the rules. I'm just saying take the rule out for CRTs (or non-MSMA, or privateer, or whatever you want to call them) and let THEM decide if they can come up with the money or not. Don't handcuff them with the rules, and then try to say "well, they couldn't afford it anyway, so it's fine". Leave the choice to them to try to find the money or not. This way it almost makes sure that they can't catch up.
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they actually did have some extra testing time. they had more days at the sepang test than the factory teams got.

I think we are argreeing here. CRTs need track time. no dsiagreement, what I am saying is that is that just saying you can test more doesnt accomplish thatbecause it wouldnt change anything. they dotn have the money. what I am saying is dorna should organize a handful of CRT specific tests. you could do two specific tests, plus add an extra two days of testing to two race weekends.

dorna already fronts pretty much all the travel costs of the CRT teams (and the sat lease teams). I am just saying they should also front a few test days to help develpment.
 
kevin 714

kevin 714

Well-known member
Antarius said:
How can it really cost that much? They could rent out Thunderhill for $15k a weekend. LOL
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even if we said lets rent tunderhill (not a track on the calander, not a world class track, almost zero applicable testing), how much do you think it costs to send a team from europe, with all their bikes, gear, materials, personale, and riders, to CA for three days

thats the exact reason ducati didnt attend the auston test, too much $$/ and thats ducati, a team, with a ful sponsor with deep pockets. think NGM forrward and aventia blusens could afford it?

Im think renting mugello for a weekdn is a little more than thunderhill lol
 
kevin 714

kevin 714

Well-known member
Antarius said:
About $10000 in tickets, another $10000 in shipping costs?
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even then you are talking abut a 40k dollar trip.


anyway, its got to be expensive, otherwise it wuldnt be a big deal. I mean ducati straioght up said they didnt go to autsin because it was too expensive. and yamaha said they only went and spent the momey bacsue honda was, and they could share costs.

I think it would do the privateer teams a lot of good (esecially anyone running the new factory private bikes cause thyre brand new) to hold privateer specific test days, centrally located in europe in addition to thje stabndard tests
 
stangmx13

stangmx13

not Stan
Duc said it would have cost them 350k (prob euro) to test at COTA w/ everyone else.

i wonder if Carmelo pays for 'Stones at private tests... i bet not. and of course, uve then gotta pay for the Bridgestone teach and each tire too.
 
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stangmx13

stangmx13

not Stan
Zerox said:
Interesting point of view from Spies:

http://www.crash.net/motogp/interview/191762/1/8/exclusive_ben_spies_-_qa.html

Spies says that MotoGP should make the tires more sucky like Pirelli does in WSBK, so the reduced grip would automatically level the playing field. Hmmm.
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ya everyone has been saying something similar for years.

Spies isnt really saying that it would "level the playing field"... just that it would be easier for everyone to get to the front. of course, the factory that could best exploit the characteristics of the tires would still be out front. but ya, right now the tires are NOT the limiting factory for going fast; chassis design and electronics are. IF tires were the limiting factory, then the bikes wouldnt need to be as nearly good to go at the best possible laptime that the tires could support.

but rly, f*** that shit. one of the main reasons y GP is awesome is because the tires are difficult to use and insanely fast.
 
kevin 714

kevin 714

Well-known member
Bridgestone isn't going to purposely make shit tires, that's not exactly good for their image. Pirelli took a solid hit when the first control tires sucked, and its taken them a decent amount of time to get up to snuff with tires. Now they are pretty good tires. The guys just make more mistakes mid race. Dani Jorge and Casey rarely made mistakes
 
DaveT319

DaveT319

Marquez FTW
kevin 714 said:
they actually did have some extra testing time. they had more days at the sepang test than the factory teams got.

I think we are argreeing here. CRTs need track time. no dsiagreement, what I am saying is that is that just saying you can test more doesnt accomplish thatbecause it wouldnt change anything. they dotn have the money. what I am saying is dorna should organize a handful of CRT specific tests. you could do two specific tests, plus add an extra two days of testing to two race weekends.

dorna already fronts pretty much all the travel costs of the CRT teams (and the sat lease teams). I am just saying they should also front a few test days to help develpment.
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You're right, we are mostly in agreement, though I'm just saying that whether they have the extra money or not, the rules should not limit them. They are already WAY behind the curve compared to the factory bikes, so don't hold them back. If they can't afford it, fine. But don't take the option out of their hands.

And I TOTALLY agree they should have a couple CRT-only tests to help them out some. Just tack it on the end of a race weekend or two. Something to give them a little help. They need a little something more because they just don't stack up against the factory bikes (though they are improving) and I'm tired of seeing what amount to two different classes on the same track at the same time.
 
DaveT319

DaveT319

Marquez FTW
kevin 714 said:
thats the exact reason ducati didnt attend the auston test, too much $$/ and thats ducati, a team, with a ful sponsor with deep pockets. think NGM forrward and aventia blusens could afford it?
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I think that test was more about letting the teams get a head start on learning the track, not really to help development of the bikes. And I'm not surprised hardly anyone went: it costs European teams a fortune, and Austin sucks. :laughing

Thing is, would it really need to be a track that's on the schedule to help with development? I mean, sure, it won't help with dialing in specific settings, but I'd be willing to bet that they'd learn things that would help them. Wouldn't a test at Estoril do them some good even though they're not racing there this year?
 
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