Honda Production MOTOGP racer first look

[Spec-ECU]

Just to clarify - Honda has planned to build production racers for GP competition, and they are also building road-going replicas of the RC213V to be sold to the public.

 

[Spec-ECU]

And for a bit of brush-up on what was last released about the production racer specs, read this 02/2013 article from MotoMatters.com previously shared:

HRC Boss Reveals Details of Honda's Production Racer: Conventional Valves, Standard Gearbox, a Million Euros


Which just reminded me that according to Nakamoto, omitting the seamless gearbox from the production racer was not a matter of cost, "claiming the seamless gearbox now costs almost the same as a standard unit."

 

[R1-Limited]

OK, so the next question is, what are the rules for these "Production" bikes Since someone or entity will flip the bill for a million euro's that means they have the lateral cash to make it faster. Port work, electronics, suspension, aerodynamics can they all be built on and made better?
Since it is not a CRT what limitations are there if any?

 

[clutchslip]

OK, so the next question is, what are the rules for these "Production" bikes Since someone or entity will flip the bill for a million euro's that means they have the lateral cash to make it faster. Port work, electronics, suspension, aerodynamics can they all be built on and made better?
Since it is not a CRT what limitations are there if any?

It seems it is a CRT, or Honda is building them to be used that way.
From the Nakamoto interview:

On top of this, the fuel tank capacity will be 24 litres in comparison with 20 on the official bikes and 12 engines will be available per season.

That is CRT spec.

 

[kevin 714]

Link for the article? The most recent interview with him states the bike will not use the full 24 liters

 

[kelsodeez]

honda satellite teams arent doing shit, what makes you guys think that a production racer is going to do any better under a CRT team?

 

[Spec-ECU]

Link for the article? The most recent interview with him states the bike will not use the full 24 liters

Dude, it's in your original post. :laughing

 

[kevin 714]

Lulz I don't know why I thought he says less.

So 12 engines and 24 liters

 

[LongGoneJohn]

I don't care about factory teams. I do not believe they are essential in having a successful
League.

Take F1. You essentially have satellite teams with factory engines winning. Day in and day out. This honda production racer is a good start to "production racers" that can help squeeze the factories out.

 

[kevin 714]

honda satellite teams arent doing shit, what makes you guys think that a production racer is going to do any better under a CRT team?

I'm not wonder whether they'll do better than the full prototypes, I'm wondering if theyll be better than the CRT bikes currently used.

 

[stangmx13]

Lulz I don't know why I thought he says less.

So 12 engines and 24 liters

Nakamoto did say less than 24L for the proddy-bike at least once. im sure the article is around here somewhere.

I don't care about factory teams. I do not believe they are essential in having a successful
League.

Take F1. You essentially have satellite teams with factory engines winning. Day in and day out. This honda production racer is a good start to "production racers" that can help squeeze the factories out.

yep.

teams can make their own bikes, but they will never be able make their own (competitive) engines. once all the factories sell engines, Dorna can freeze the spec and force even the factories to run their spec-engine. teams purchase whatever engines they want and build a frame around it... making success in GP completely dependent on the team, as it should be.

 

[clutchslip]

Nakamoto did say less than 24L for the proddy-bike at least once. im sure the article is around here somewhere.

I can not find that. He mentions it being a standardized ECU and 24 liters, here: motomatters -02/07/2013

The bike will use the spec Magneti Marelli electronics, and the spec Dorna software, which will mean the bike will be allowed to run 24 liters of fuel, rather than the 20 liters factory prototypes will have at their disposal from 2014.

The way the rules are written, the MSMA members are only allowed four "full factory" bikes. Theoretically, anyone else besides a MSMA member can be a CRT, even one of the satellite teams could option for CRT status. I will bet anything that their contracts with the major forbid that, of course. :laughing

 

[kevin 714]

well excetpt a huge part of rt is the clamining rule thing. I dont think honda wants their bike claimed and then taken apart for info.

"allowed" and will are two diffeent things. I swear to god he said speicifclaly just a few weeks ago that th ebike wont run the entire 24 liters

 

[clutchslip]

That's what I said. The contract would NOT allow anyone with a prototype to do anything, but race what they are given. Even if they whispered what was inside, the wrath of the Yakuza (and a ka-zillion attorneys) would smite their asses back to Flintstone rubber. :laughing

 

[kelsodeez]

I'm not wonder whether they'll do better than the full prototypes, I'm wondering if theyll be better than the CRT bikes currently used.

i just see it as another move for honda to control the grid on every level, from the factory teams to the crt's, honda basically controls it all. i wouldnt be surprised if their prod racers do horribly for the first year and then dorna passes some rule that will allow them to have an unfair advantage. its like everyone is playing checkers and honda is playing chess.

 

[kevin 714]

I know one thing, Honda will not release something that does "horrible".

I don't know what expectations were, but nakamoto said its exceeded them

 

[Spec-ECU]

MotoGP's Claiming Rule to be Dropped from 2014

The title is a bit of a misnomer, as Emmett further explains:

The demise of the claiming rules does not mean the end of the CRTs, however...It looks like at least two FTR Kawasakis will continue to be raced in 2014, while Aspar looks set to keep racing Aprilia's ART machines. Those teams will cease to officially be called CRTs, and become instead non-MSMA entries.

In summary, there will continue to be two classes of entries in MotoGP: MSMA and non-MSMA. The deciding factor between the two types of entry will be the choice of whether to run Dorna's spec software, or to continue to write their own custom software. That decision will then affect how much fuel they are allowed and how many engines they can use all year.

 

[LongGoneJohn]

I actually agree with that approach.

Now what they need to do is quit changing the rules!. Give the non-MSMA teams a chance to DEVELOP a bike over a period of YEARS so they can COMPETE.

If you change the rules every single year, only the teams with the MOST money will ever have a chance of even getting close to the right "setup" in the off season.

DORNA should also allow non-MSMA unlimited testing.

 

[kevin 714]

I actually agree with that approach.

Now what they need to do is quit changing the rules!. Give the non-MSMA teams a chance to DEVELOP a bike over a period of YEARS so they can COMPETE.

If you change the rules every single year, only the teams with the MOST money will ever have a chance of even getting close to the right "setup" in the off season.

DORNA should also allow non-MSMA unlimited testing.

testing costs a lot of money. a LOT. thats why dorna caped the amoiunt of non sanctioned test days you can do, because its CRAZY $$

IMO what they should do is sanction their own test days. dorna rents out a track and invites the privateer teams (thats what I am calling them) to test. anyone using their software can attend.

 

[Spec-ECU]

I actually agree with that approach.

Now what they need to do is quit changing the rules!.

I realize it's ironic, but really, all these changes in the regulations are simply the means to find a happy balance that the series can settle on long-term. Everything that's happened since the 2011 post-season is converging to just that.

It's just not going to happen overnight, per se.