Going thru turns in the mountains - an honest inquiry

[corndog67]

"Please... I am not suggesting you be a hooligan and rip like a mad man, but I know enough people I consider VERY good riders that will ride a spirited fun and mostly safe pace where roads allow that minus the sight line."

I kinda do. But it's the bike's fault. KTM built a bike that works better the harder that you ride it. It is extremely entertaining on really bumpy, dirty, tight little roads, and I very seldom have any close calls on it. Everytime I ride something else, like my brother's 955 Speed Triple or pretty much anything else, I'm reminded why, nothing else I've ridden works as well.

 

[Kawikiwi]

I'm telling ya--get a 50cc replica. You wont believe how much fun you can have on these bikes. It's all about getting everything right. The bike forces you to pay attention, and at the same time significantly mitigates much of the risk. It's the whole F=MA thing. And they are really nice on insurance too. :teeth

Here you go a nice one.

You've definitely got the right idea. I miss having my not-quite-30hp ninja 250 for the same reason. Although, I tended to outride my sightlines a bit more on the small bike because it carried corner speed so much better...

 

[MysterYvil]

Nope nope nope.

I knew some twisties very well (San Juan Grade, Page Mill, Tunitas Creek), well enough to anticipate my line and speed. Every one held hidden surprises from time to time. Stopped delivery trucks, oncoming cars passing bicyclists, once a huge pile of trash.

Not worth it to me.

Thanks so far.. The reason I said familiar roads is driveways, typical debris areas etc. are known and adjustments are made before getting to them. I think that plays into it. Even on some goats there are DW's and debris beside the big bumps or pot holes to consider.

Hills are a consideration as well. Often you have zero sight line and if the road is straight and the speed limit is 55 MPH to you really slow down to 10 to roll over. I would be most people are out riding their sight line. Or does that not count.??

As far as hills go, I'd slow and prepare to hit the ditch. River Road has two crests which often have oncoming maniacs making blind passes. I don't go 10 mph slow, but I do scrub off speed and prepare to evade. Saved my bacon at least twice.

 

[SFSV650]

I don't out ride (or out drive) my sight lines. This significantly annoys cagers who can't wait to charge around a blind corner at 50+ in a 30 zone, which poses it's own hazards. :dunno

One of the most fun things about riding in Scotland a few years back was having miles of visibility through multiple linked turns, on pristine asphalt. One could confidently push triple digits without fear of meeting a sheep, a car, or a police officer. I can't imagine anything like that in the bay area.

 

[Aware]

One of the most fun things about riding in Scotland a few years back was having miles of visibility through multiple linked turns, on pristine asphalt. One could confidently push triple digits without fear of meeting a sheep, a car, or a police officer. I can't imagine anything like that in the bay area.

You have no idea how much I miss those roads. I learned to ride there and rode all over Scotland for close to 20 years. 150 mph is totally doable and only slightly crazy.

 

[nebulous]

I don't like to but it happens. The one place it really bothers me is the upper section of Bear Creek Rd. If your moving at any appreciable rate your well past your sight lines a majority of the time. If there is a dear, fallen branch or tourist making a u-turn your toast.

 

[Kestrel]

People do dumb shit all the time. Do not let their stupidity kill you.

I was cruising the Blue Ridge Parkway last year in the turbo Volvo wagon, and ended up behind a lady in a Honda Odyssey-esque sort of van. We went around a right hand corner, where the right hand turn was 'blind' through the corner... (Drop off was on the left side.) Immediately following the corner, she pulled into the gravel, so I went around her. In my mirror looking back, I saw that she began to do a twenty point turn in her van, blocking both lanes of traffic for probably 15 seconds.

Anyone who came through that corner behind her would have been dead. I was furious, and considered going back to chew her out. The BRP is a 45mph road that is VERY predictable, outside of a few tight turns, most of which are well marked... but what you couldn't have predicted was that lady. There's no way you would have been able to stop, even doing the speed limit through there.

None of us are perfect, and no doubt we're all going to find ourselves breaking the golden rule every now again. Even so, you've got to try to reel in your behavior and actions when that happens, and catch yourself.

Save the heroic shit for where you can see.

 

[Marcoose]

I went with "No...", but it isn't the best choice for me. I enter blind turns with the mental calculation I can either (1) bring the motorbike to a complete stop midway through the bend, or (2) slow down sufficiently to go around the obstacle, or (3) have a love kiss bump vs a big crash. I mostly ride alone, by choice, and have been riding very slowly lately and enjoying it a lot. And I don't mind too much staying behind another road user until there's a good place to overtake, which, by motorbike, it's very easy to find.

 

[ToraTora]

You've definitely got the right idea. I miss having my not-quite-30hp ninja 250 for the same reason. Although, I tended to outride my sightlines a bit more on the small bike because it carried corner speed so much better...

Imagine losing about 200lbs off of your Ninja! These are GP replicas so they have decent brakes, suspension, chassis (all better than the Ninja), and they are light. Sticky tires are available for them too.

It's true that you can carry enough speed through the corners that you could outride your sight lines with these bike, but over all by riding something with 7.5 to 15 hp changes a lot about how you ride--mitigating a lot of risk. There are ways to get a lot more HP out of the bikes. However, I've found you really don't need much. Frequently I enjoy taking out the lower hp bike as my skill improves. It's weird.

Because with these bikes you are shifting all the time you are much more engaged in the ride. The emotional connection is greater. And because the mass is less the feeling of speed is greater, even when you aren't actually going faster.

At the recent Ducati Scrambler demo in SF I let one of the ride leads take my 50cc for a spin. He had a blast, and said that I had made his day. I don't mean to be preachy at all with this stuff. I feel like I've discovered this great secret that has made riding for me a lot more fun in the last little over a decade since I've been riding these replicas. And it's not like I don't also own and ride the bigger bikes--I do have a Panigale. :teeth

 

[WFO]

I do it a lot. Motorcycling is risky. I usually do double the speed that the signs suggest on roads I'm unfamiliar with. I look to see where the phone lines go as they're a pretty good indicator over hills. I also check my GPS as it usually tells me when something tight is coming up.

I noticed that most curves in Europe have constant radii (makes it easy) but no banking. It's also easy to overdrive your headlights on the Autobahn at night when you're booking along.

A few times I've had folks run me off the road around blind corners because they couldn't stay on their own side of the road. The pucker factor isn't that great if you live in the hills and have spent time racing motocross and cross-country. I've had two head-on collisions on my dirt bikes. One was pretty gnarly although the other guy was at fault and received the brunt of the force.

 

[Butch]

I try to not outride what I can see, but in reality, you cannot stop and change directions very quickly.

I keep the pace not beyond brisk when I know the road and pay attention. I really slow it down when there are a lot of unknowns.

Even then, if sudden shit happens, trust your instincts, cross your fingers and wear proper protection.

 

[Smash Allen]

... if sudden shit happens, trust your instincts, cross your fingers and wear proper protection.

hey look it's the dating advice my dad gave me

 

[tzrider]

I try to be aware of whether I can stop in the distance I can see. A lot of the time I can, but sometimes not. I've put in a lot of miles with riders who say they don't out-ride their sight lines and would tell you that they are kidding themselves some of the time.

We should do the best we can to stay within visual limits. At the same time we should be aware that even if you're setting your speed to account for a stationary object just out of your view, this doesn't eliminate risk from oncoming objects. Running a wide line that allows you to see as far as possible and leaving some lean angle in reserve to tighten your line if required are the only ways I know of to manage that risk.

 

[shouldnthave]

hey look it's the dating advice my dad gave me

If only... WHY have you forsaken me DAD!?!?

 

[glooey]

Timely topic.

Going up Mt. Ham today, coming out of a blind right hander, came upon a dead-stopped line of cars, with the last vehicle in line an SUV just beyond the exit of the turn.

I had decided at Alum Rock to take it easy today - partly because I was riding the FJR, partly because I just wanted to cruise. I recall taking that series of turns ~4/10 and was able to safely stop with margin. Not exactly a relaxed stop, but not quite a pucker moment.

Frankly, I don't think I would have made that stop safely at 6-7/10 (though there was a bailout in the oncoming lane as it was empty, directly related to the reason the cars were stopped in my lane).

Not sure if there's a lesson here except to reinforce the point that it's never a bad thing to be able to stop within your sightline. And maybe that you can have fun riding without pushing yourself all the time.

PS - Encountered three oncoming SUVs and pickups taking up most to all of my lane on Del Puerto today. No problems as they were spotted easily and got back in lane or gave me enough room to get past. Just more reinforcement of the need to practice expecting risks around every turn.

PPS - Del Puerto was in classic form today: a bunch of sections have been patched/re-paved, but there are still plenty of goaty sections and some new ottoman-sized 4" deep potholes. Beautifully stark late-summer views entering the valley from the east/Patterson.

PPPS - Top of Mt. Ham got fresh tar snakes mid-day today. Extra slippy, just like everyone likes it.

 

[budman]

Glad it was all to the good Greg. Sometimes we just are lucky with our decisions. This will be a good add to the thread when I get there.

Yummy....tar snakes.

 

[dtrides]

First off, let me say I am fully on board with Butch's view on this topic.
That said, on the bike, like in the truck, the reality for me is ....yes.
Just driving in traffic when I am in the Bay Area I feel like most of the traffic is well beyond their ability to stop in time if their was a real need.
We ride and drive on faith of our fellow humans wont do something too stupid in our vicinity.
I think having a game plan, following intuition , such as glooey did, and thinking there may be a problem behind every corner is a good start.
The roads I ride can be mile after mile of blind corners, lane sharing (ie, half way in your lane while cornering) SUV's, Kamikaze squirrels playing chicken not to mention the normal gravel/rocks that gather just out of sight.
I run a pace that allows me to adjust my line to accommodate the bulk of these hazards but know I am not invincible to all the probabilities that lay just out of sight.
But in reality, isn't some of the buzz we (I) get from riding from putting our selves in a vulnerable situation, deliberately engaging in our environment and coming to our destination feeling more alive than when we left?
Use you noggin and enjoy the :ride.
DT

 

[NoTraffic]

While I'm putting my gloves on warming my engine, I say to myself ride within my comfort zone. Sometimes adrenaline, other riders, or a thought will lead me into a time flux of throttling much more than I normally would.

When that high wears off, I get back to my senses and think if there's a fallen tree laid down on the road after this blind turn, can I stop? Then reality sets back in and I tone down. I'm no different when in a car.

 

[russ69]

...It's true that you can carry enough speed through the corners that you could outride your sight lines with these bike...

I love small bikes, I've always owned a small bore bike. I had an MB5 with race tires back in the day. Although your average speed doesn't get excessive, you have to hit the corners hard to keep up a good pace. Rolling off on a small bore kills your drive. Generally I'm with you 100% but over-running your sight lines is not one of the smallbore's benefits, lower average speed is.

 

[GetOuttaMyWay]

No. Even with someone in front of me. Last time I was on mines in my car there was a Jeep doing a good pace, decided to keep up with him since he would encounter any issues before me. Came around a blind left turn and believe it or not a 14' Uhaul was coming right at me. I almost slid off the road which dropped off down to the creek and when we stopped my fender was about a foot from the front end of that beast. Not sure how the Jeep made it through but if I was on my Moto i would have dumped it or been a hood ornament.

I'll run single lane roads as if there's something around every corner. If there's a turn or a few set of turns with good sight lines I'll have some fun but. Kind of an erratic pace but allows me to have some fun.