Five Ways to Crash (plus one)
- Thread starter DataDan
- Start date
DataDan
Mama says he's bona fide
Yes they do. All crash reports of all injury severities from all agencies in the state are collected by the CHP in the Statewide Integrated Traffic Records System. But AFAIK only the PDFs at the link are available to the public. Unlike NHTSA's Fatality Analysis Reporting System, data from which the reports are derived isn't published.
DataDan
Mama says he's bona fide
Your question came to mind as I scrolled through the weekend motorcycle news and found two stories directly related to it:
Inexperience may have contributed to motorcycle accident in Casco
CASCO — A head-on collision between a motorcycle and a car late Saturday night left the motorcyclist with serious injuries, the Cumberland County Sheriff’s Department said.
Capt. Jeff Davis said inexperience may have contributed to the crash, which involved a [47-year-old rider who] was summonsed for not having a license to operate a motorcycle.
Police said [the] 1996 Honda motorcycle crossed the center line on Meadow Road in Casco and struck a 1994 Ford Escort...
[The rider] suffered a possible broken pelvis and back injuries. He was listed in serious condition Sunday night by a spokesperson at Maine Medical Center in Portland.
The accident took place at 10:45 p.m. Saturday.
CASCO — A head-on collision between a motorcycle and a car late Saturday night left the motorcyclist with serious injuries, the Cumberland County Sheriff’s Department said.
Capt. Jeff Davis said inexperience may have contributed to the crash, which involved a [47-year-old rider who] was summonsed for not having a license to operate a motorcycle.
Police said [the] 1996 Honda motorcycle crossed the center line on Meadow Road in Casco and struck a 1994 Ford Escort...
[The rider] suffered a possible broken pelvis and back injuries. He was listed in serious condition Sunday night by a spokesperson at Maine Medical Center in Portland.
The accident took place at 10:45 p.m. Saturday.
Motorcyclist killed in wreck
...a Buncombe County man was killed after losing control of and wrecking his new motorcycle on Interstate 40 Saturday night.
At 9:55 p.m., [the rider, age 53,] was driving his 2009 Kawaski west, when he ran off the left side of the pavement and hit the guardrail, according to a report by Trooper R.W. Monosso of the N.C. Highway Patrol.
Sgt. Kevin Owens said [the rider] just bought the motorcycle Friday in Raleigh and was on his way back home when the wreck occurred.
There are more of these stories than you might expect....a Buncombe County man was killed after losing control of and wrecking his new motorcycle on Interstate 40 Saturday night.
At 9:55 p.m., [the rider, age 53,] was driving his 2009 Kawaski west, when he ran off the left side of the pavement and hit the guardrail, according to a report by Trooper R.W. Monosso of the N.C. Highway Patrol.
Sgt. Kevin Owens said [the rider] just bought the motorcycle Friday in Raleigh and was on his way back home when the wreck occurred.
As you may know from posts I've written elsewhere, I'm not generally convinced that training makes a motorcyclist less likely to crash. I think a rider will do what he wants with newly developed skills--use them to ride as he has, but more safely; or to ride farther, faster, or on more challenging roads. However, I do think that learning the most basic skills of turning and braking is absolutely essesntial for a raw noob to survive those first few months.
ceedubb
New member
I can definitely vouch for overreaction being a major contributing factor. I have had a motorist, on more than one occasion, make a sudden lane change in front of me as I lane split in traffic and due to my own overreaction I made a potentially unsafe situation much worse by grabbing way too much brake as a knee-jerk reaction. I have been lucky so far, but doing so through a turn or in such a tight space is a scenario where overreacting can definitely lead to a crash.
Last edited:
CaptCrash
Dazed and Confused
I think that there may be a 6th way to crash here, one that may be embedded into the others:
Following too close/failure to anticipate/inattention (poor space cushioning?)
ceedubb points surprises while lane splitting, when separation between vehicles is cut by orders of magnitude, that ANY unexpected behavior by another user can create a panic/kneejerk from a rider.
Any of the other 5 causes can be aggravated by a surprise reaction where we take the wrong action or a sudden, overly powerful good reaction.
DD? Is it too fundamental to assume that situational awareness/situational extrapolation doesn't count as a "cause" but are a contributing factor? Like the time, back in the day, when I went to pass a slow moving car and it turned left (no signal) across my path? Surprised, I hit the brakes and swerved simultaneously, overspent my traction and went for a tumble.
Really I should have seen it coming...
DataDan
Mama says he's bona fide
That's a good addition to the list, Crash. Yes, situational awareness contributes to most crashes, but rearenders deserve their own spot in the hall of shame. Nearly 10% of Bay Area fatals occur in rearenders where the motorcycle is the striking vehicle (10 of 98 in 2008). As much as we worry about horrors like the recent Phoenix tragedy, the motorcycle is the rearendER twice as often as it is the rearendEE (based on US data over many years).
GAJ
Well-known member
Man, that's crazy.
Kind of like the statistic I learned at my last traffic school where most Train/Vehicle collisions are vehicles running into trains, not the other way around! :wtf
DataDan
Mama says he's bona fide
#6: Rear-ending another vehicle
I thought of your post, Crash, as I was browsing recent motorcycle news and came across some items that support your nomination of the rear-ender to a permanent spot on the list of most popular crashes.
- Peardale, CA (east of Grass Valley), May 15
A Subaru and a Harley were traveling southbound on Highway 174 around noon when the Subaru slowed to make a turn, according to the California Highway Patrol. The motorcyclist did not notice the vehicle slowing, rear-ended it, and was thrown from the motorcycle through the back window of the Subaru. The rider, who was wearing a helmet, suffered moderate injuries, including lacerations and bruises.
- Lakeport, NY, May 22
A motorcyclist was injured when he was ejected into the back seat of a convertible after his motorcycle struck the car. The driver was with her daughter in the Chevrolet Cavalier convertible with the top down. As she slowed to make a turn, she saw a motorcyclist about three to four blocks behind her. "The next thing you know there was this big crash, and I felt something on the back of my head," she said. "My daughter said 'Mom, there's something in the back seat', and there was this guy laying there." The motorcyclist said he was adjusting his bike's mirror when the accident occurred.
- Wichita, KS, May 30
A motorcycle at high speed rear ended a pickup truck around 5:00 a.m. Sunday, throwing the rider into the bed of the pickup. The truck driver thought he had run over something, so he pulled into a parking lot to check his truck but didn't find anything. He continued to his destination about a mile away where he noticed the injured motorcyclist in the bed of his pickup truck. The motorcyclist is in serious condition.
- Lebanon, PA, May 30
A motorcyclist who was wiping sweat from his eyes failed to notice a Chevy van in front of him slowing to turn into a driveway and crashed into the rear of the vehicle. The rider, who was wearing a helmet, suffered moderate injuries to his left ankle.
the donald
Well-known member
wow that almost happened to me, head in the rear window. it is a T intersection.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou...oid=EGdQxvG0NBAvZcj-g_uyzw&cbp=12,115.46,,0,5
the brown SUV is the car in front of me(i don't remeber what the vehicle actually was) the black truck is the jeep, the bronze vehicle to the left is the van that cut me off.
anyways the car in front of me turns right, i come up to the stop sign and stop to let the jeep go, the jeep goes. i look and see the van stop. start letting the clutch out and look right to make sure no one is cutting an early right that might hit me(no one is coming for a ways). so i start to give it gas and look at the van again as it is halfway through the intersection staring at me. squeeze the clutch and front brake( iwas going about 2 MPH) and rev it to about 6k
twofinger) and then i take off( was thinking of blowing by them as an additional salute but checked myself)
about a half mile up the road
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou...=4N5gYbfLa7ATIpu94RGQsA&cbp=12,115.46,,0,4.91
i know this intersection can often slow down from about 50 to 30 on a regular basis, and a complete stop occasionally for the left turn right there. i was in 5th gear and was covering the rear brake and saw traffic slowing so i was engaging it to slow down. i see the jeep's brake lights and the van stopping FAST and no brake lights. i locked up the rear( i don't know if by over braking or the bike stalling just before i put the clutch in) i stopped with about 5 feet between us and immediatly "walked" my bike next to the van because i knew people were coming behind me and probably were in panic braking mode. i felt the rear slide out but like i have read here, it does not matter you have to stop so ride it out.
i could have done better, definatly this event opened my eyes much more to checking my anger( iwas pissed and was still angry when it happened and afterwards) but i was happy with how i reacted to it.
edit, i did use the front brake when i realized they were coming to a complete stop. and i was giving my common 3 sec cushion.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou...oid=EGdQxvG0NBAvZcj-g_uyzw&cbp=12,115.46,,0,5
the brown SUV is the car in front of me(i don't remeber what the vehicle actually was) the black truck is the jeep, the bronze vehicle to the left is the van that cut me off.
anyways the car in front of me turns right, i come up to the stop sign and stop to let the jeep go, the jeep goes. i look and see the van stop. start letting the clutch out and look right to make sure no one is cutting an early right that might hit me(no one is coming for a ways). so i start to give it gas and look at the van again as it is halfway through the intersection staring at me. squeeze the clutch and front brake( iwas going about 2 MPH) and rev it to about 6k
twofinger) and then i take off( was thinking of blowing by them as an additional salute but checked myself) about a half mile up the road
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou...=4N5gYbfLa7ATIpu94RGQsA&cbp=12,115.46,,0,4.91
i know this intersection can often slow down from about 50 to 30 on a regular basis, and a complete stop occasionally for the left turn right there. i was in 5th gear and was covering the rear brake and saw traffic slowing so i was engaging it to slow down. i see the jeep's brake lights and the van stopping FAST and no brake lights. i locked up the rear( i don't know if by over braking or the bike stalling just before i put the clutch in) i stopped with about 5 feet between us and immediatly "walked" my bike next to the van because i knew people were coming behind me and probably were in panic braking mode. i felt the rear slide out but like i have read here, it does not matter you have to stop so ride it out.
i could have done better, definatly this event opened my eyes much more to checking my anger( iwas pissed and was still angry when it happened and afterwards) but i was happy with how i reacted to it.
edit, i did use the front brake when i realized they were coming to a complete stop. and i was giving my common 3 sec cushion.
Pking
Humble Rider
Good post. Don't know if there's any truth to this...when I first started riding, I heard something that have stayed with me til this day..."High risk riders are usually the same when behind the wheel. Careful & cautious riders are usually the same behind the wheel." So when I see a biker blazing through a busy intersection with no regards for safety I sometimes wonder if that how he/she drives?
PYRO
out on parole
one of the reasons I prefer sportbike riders to Harley riders.
Sportbikes are self limiting
the bad ones either realize they are going to kill themselves, so, they quit.
or, they don't, and they do.
Or, they buy a Harley:teeth
RRrider
Enthusiast, Fukrwe Club
:thumbup love it! +1
Indeed on a high end sport bike, you either pay serious attention, or end up a Darwin award candidate.
Hi. Data dan and Capt. Crash will recognize me from another forum. This thread was sent to me by Niebor who you might know. I've been riding a little over 3 years and have ridden about 85,000 miles without incident. Ok, I'm a scooter rider. A Burgman 650, a Burgman 650 Executive and a Yamaha Majesty.
Rather than just agree with what has been said, I'll try to add value. I found this website on driving. Basically what they did was put a sensor in car to measure braking and swerving. Anything over about .6 in braking was considered an "incident" and the factors leading up to it were reviewed. It was found that those with the fewest braking incidents also had the fewest accidents.
Someone in the thread said a close call is an accident that didn't happen. I'd suggest a stricter definition. Braking over .3 g's is an accident that didn't happen. There were some in the study who didn't exceed .3 g's for a whole year. I set a stricter standard for myself at .25 g's.
So, how to measure it? I put a g meter on my bike and car and worked to avoid exceeding .25 g's. This is an EXTREMELY difficult standard, especially as I had no sympathy for myself as to the cause. (Sudden light change, etc.)
After thousands of miles of monitoring just this one factor, I found my riding and driving improved greatly. In order to meet the standard, one has to be very observant and plan very far ahead. It doesn't slow me down at all. It just forces me to focus on when it's safe to go faster (I'm a speed limit rider) and when to slow down.
Here is an expensive g-meter, but it has a nice graph. There are cheaper ones for about $100.
For those who don't want to spend any money .25 g's is about the force it takes to stop in 66 feet from 20 mph. It's equivalent to a very light touch on the brake pedal in a car.
There was an old safety study that said for every 300 unsafe acts, there were 30 incidents, 3 accidents with injury and 1 fatality. There is some g-force that would show an unsafe act had occurred. I set the bar at .25 g's for myself. Instead of trying to avoid crashes, I work very hard at trying to avoid avoidable situations that have a probability of a crash, however small.
Rather than just agree with what has been said, I'll try to add value. I found this website on driving. Basically what they did was put a sensor in car to measure braking and swerving. Anything over about .6 in braking was considered an "incident" and the factors leading up to it were reviewed. It was found that those with the fewest braking incidents also had the fewest accidents.
Someone in the thread said a close call is an accident that didn't happen. I'd suggest a stricter definition. Braking over .3 g's is an accident that didn't happen. There were some in the study who didn't exceed .3 g's for a whole year. I set a stricter standard for myself at .25 g's.
So, how to measure it? I put a g meter on my bike and car and worked to avoid exceeding .25 g's. This is an EXTREMELY difficult standard, especially as I had no sympathy for myself as to the cause. (Sudden light change, etc.)
After thousands of miles of monitoring just this one factor, I found my riding and driving improved greatly. In order to meet the standard, one has to be very observant and plan very far ahead. It doesn't slow me down at all. It just forces me to focus on when it's safe to go faster (I'm a speed limit rider) and when to slow down.
Here is an expensive g-meter, but it has a nice graph. There are cheaper ones for about $100.
For those who don't want to spend any money .25 g's is about the force it takes to stop in 66 feet from 20 mph. It's equivalent to a very light touch on the brake pedal in a car.
There was an old safety study that said for every 300 unsafe acts, there were 30 incidents, 3 accidents with injury and 1 fatality. There is some g-force that would show an unsafe act had occurred. I set the bar at .25 g's for myself. Instead of trying to avoid crashes, I work very hard at trying to avoid avoidable situations that have a probability of a crash, however small.
DataDan
Mama says he's bona fide
Welcome to BARF, Rioguy. No anti-scooter bias here in 1Rider, but in other forums you're on your own
.For much more on the 100-Car Naturalistic Driving Study (funded by NHTSA and conducted by Virginia Tech) see this summary (PDF). Interestingly, the same methodology will be used in an upcoming motorcycle study funded by MSF (PDF).
Some may find the g-meter a bit of a distraction, but striving to stay far enough ahead of one's situation mentally that harsh braking and steering aren't necessary is an excellent approach. The key is scanning out to 12 seconds ahead, as MSF recommends. If you spot that slow-moving truck, that car trying to pull into traffic, or that pedestrian juggling a kid and a dog and an armful of groceries 12 seconds in advance, you can take evasive action in slow motion.
An old adage in engineering is that the earlier you spot a problem, the easier it is to fix. Find an error at the cocktail-napkin stage of design and you just order another round and start over. Find the error when 100 production aircraft are flying and you've got a huge problem on your hands. The same is true when dealing with a traffic problem. The earlier you identify it, the easier it will be to avoid. And that principle applies to all 5+1 ways to crash discussed in this thread.
DataDan
Mama says he's bona fide
Never merge into a lane you can't see
The news report on a crash today in Phoenix, AZ adds some useful detail on how rear-enders can occur. The rider merged into a freeway lane behind a box truck, then merged again into the next lane. But traffic in that lane had slowed dramatically and he was unable to stop before rear-ending the vehicle ahead.
The lesson here is to be able to see the lane you're merging into. Impatience may tempt you to make a quick swerve to avoid a slowdown in your lane, but don't give in to the urge. If you're behind a vehicle you can't see over, around, or through, use following distance and advantageous lane position to gain a good view into the destination lane before making your move.
The news report on a crash today in Phoenix, AZ adds some useful detail on how rear-enders can occur. The rider merged into a freeway lane behind a box truck, then merged again into the next lane. But traffic in that lane had slowed dramatically and he was unable to stop before rear-ending the vehicle ahead.
The lesson here is to be able to see the lane you're merging into. Impatience may tempt you to make a quick swerve to avoid a slowdown in your lane, but don't give in to the urge. If you're behind a vehicle you can't see over, around, or through, use following distance and advantageous lane position to gain a good view into the destination lane before making your move.
enki
Well-known member
Here's one out of passer vs. passee:
A 39-year-old Hanford man was killed Wednesday morning in a crash east of Kerman, the California Highway Patrol reported.
The CHP said Jack McCalmon Jr. was riding a 2009 Harley-Davidson motorcycle westbound on Highway 180 just east of Bishop Avenue and following several other vehicles when he pulled across a solid yellow line to pass.
He apparently failed to notice that a 2003 big rig driven by Daniel Glusing, 63, of Madera was making a left turn onto Bishop, according to the CHP. McCalmon collided with the truck's trailer and died at the scene.
Whites Bridge Avenue was partially blocked during the morning because of the crash.
A 39-year-old Hanford man was killed Wednesday morning in a crash east of Kerman, the California Highway Patrol reported.
The CHP said Jack McCalmon Jr. was riding a 2009 Harley-Davidson motorcycle westbound on Highway 180 just east of Bishop Avenue and following several other vehicles when he pulled across a solid yellow line to pass.
He apparently failed to notice that a 2003 big rig driven by Daniel Glusing, 63, of Madera was making a left turn onto Bishop, according to the CHP. McCalmon collided with the truck's trailer and died at the scene.
Whites Bridge Avenue was partially blocked during the morning because of the crash.
DataDan
Mama says he's bona fide
Thanks for that, enki. Good reminder.
I've come across two of those recently as well. In one, a rider attempted to pass a tractor when the tractor was turning left. In the other, a bus ahead of a motorcycle, with another vehicle between them, slowed to turn left. The rider tried to pass both the intervening vehicle and the bus, and hit the bus in the left side.
When making a pass, the passer has an advantage in his view of the passee, whose attention is mainly forward. By using that advantage to assess the intentions of his target before making a pass, a rider can usually prevent this kind of crash.
I've come across two of those recently as well. In one, a rider attempted to pass a tractor when the tractor was turning left. In the other, a bus ahead of a motorcycle, with another vehicle between them, slowed to turn left. The rider tried to pass both the intervening vehicle and the bus, and hit the bus in the left side.
When making a pass, the passer has an advantage in his view of the passee, whose attention is mainly forward. By using that advantage to assess the intentions of his target before making a pass, a rider can usually prevent this kind of crash.