Yeah, I have this problem as well. I think turn 2,3 and 6 are main turns where my line is way off. Turn 1 occasionally too...
Feedback request: Thill East
- Thread starter self_moto
- Start date
Yeah, I have this problem as well. I think turn 2,3 and 6 are main turns where my line is way off. Turn 1 occasionally too...
Do you have apex reference points for these turns? In order to hit a target, you need something to aim at.
If you do have these RP's, how far are you from your turn point before you look at them? If you are looking for your apex as you steer the bike, it's too late to steer accurately. It's hard to see your helmet in the video, but it did look to me like your head is turning as you steer.
You can fix this in two steps:
- Make sure you have an apex reference point for the turn.
- Look at it about a half second before you steer the bike.
In some cases, you can't see the apex from the entry. In those situations, you will need a reference point prior to the apex that tells you you're on target to hit the apex if you hit that point.
I think you're absolutely right! my timing is off, I'm trying not to focus on my turn in point, and start looking at apex or RP as soon as possible, but my "as soon as possible" is quite late. Recently I picked up Keith book "Soft Science " his explanation on where and how attention should be spend explains why I have this problem - I do focus on braking(or other things) sometime too much, which obviously takes my attention from further points on track.
Thanks for tips, I'll try those on next trackday!
To be frank: where on the inside and when? I say that because not all turns have a geometric apex, but they do all have a slowest part/ max lean angle part of the corner. Is that what we're talking about?
T2 at Thill is an easy one because it's a double apex. So is T7 at Sonoma. There's plenty of room to pass on the inside in those corners because being a double apex corner, there's plenty of room on the inside to fit. I'd also add that "almost enough room" IS enough room to pass. We don't need much room to get by another guy on the inside...we just need excellent front end confidence.
I write this because the theoretical and the real tend to be a blend of practical. It's not practical for a rider who's working to master controlling their motorcycle to be able to leave inches to the (geometric) apex of a corner. They just don't have enough experience to know where the bike is going to end up within inches at any given point. That's really an experience thing and they don't have enough experience, IME/ IMO.
But...I get your direction and it's a good thing to keep in their mind...however, it's practical to allow a new rider the peace of mind to not have to be inches from an apex until they've got a signifigant experience. Once again, this stuff would be awesome to bullshit and mess around with trackside, some day.
Your eyes should really be focused on "the next thing to do" and no later than you have the current thing you're doing "under control". That means your eyes don't fix on one thing ever. Moving your eyes from what's current to what's next gives you the perspective needed to know when that "turn in point" is correct. How do you know your "turn in point"? When your able to start releasing the brake lever.
If you're stuck focusing on braking too much, don't let that be the impediment to finding a good turn in point. Instead, take a shot at using your brakes to tell YOU when it's a good time to turn in, and that almost always is when you start giving away some lever.
I had some issues with motorcycle literature not containing the wording I needed to understand some of the more advanced concepts of timing/ turn in, etc. I turned to Ross Bentley after reading Code, Ienatsch, and a few other moto books. His stuff is car material, but it's $2.99 on Amazon right now and it's really good stuff, even for us moto riders. His explanations of the concepts we all use (cars and bikes) are first rate, IMO.
It's winter...reading IS about all we can do for now...
jacob11379
Banned
Im on about 6 track days and running the exact same times as the OP....Im not scared of corner entry speed but I shit myself if my exit takes me to the edge while im on the gas so there is a few corners that really screw me up. (T-hill) turn 8 is definitely one. and turn 14/15 get me because I hate the paint at lean angle and if I cut it short of the paint in the middle of 14 then im at the edge leaving 15. I dont like paint, couple times bike has slipped and my immediate response is to flinch which unsettles bike even more....
Thanks for that post as i had not really thought much about it until I read it...:thumbup