Fake News for Joshua Tree

[KWeezyXB12]

looks legit to me. if you look closely you can see there is a straight line behind the wheel which clearly indicates a tread mark from the car

 

[mlm]

This appears to be the misleading news source
https://www.nationalparkstraveler.o...close-cleanup-repairs-vandalism-illegal-roads

If the OHV community was really shit together we would write thousands of letters protesting their speculative unsubstantiated posting.

How is this misleading (for people not already predisposed)? What is speculative?

All I see are reports that people are damaging park land. It happens all the time and sucks. It's probably why the CORVA link the OP posted mentioned they were doing a "cleanup" day.

There are lots of implications to draw of who is at fault, but it seems like you're coloring this in a defensive manner, presuming it is an attack against responsible OHV enthusiasts.

 

[Alan_Hepburn]

We've all seen the photos of the overflowing garbage in the parks. The people shitting on the roads in Yosemite because bathrooms are shut down.

So, it's perfectly okay to have our cities strewn with garbage everywhere some homeless bums decide to set up their tents, and it's okay to shit on the streets in SF, but heaven forbid someone does it out in the "wilderness"?

 

[KWeezyXB12]

How is this misleading (for people not already predisposed)? What is speculative?

All I see are reports that people are damaging park land. It happens all the time and sucks. It's probably why the CORVA link the OP posted mentioned they were doing a "cleanup" day.

There are lots of implications to draw of who is at fault, but it seems like you're coloring this in a defensive manner, presuming it is an attack against responsible OHV enthusiasts.

You're pretty much citing barf as a source by putting up that link :laughing

 

[mlm]

So, it's perfectly okay to have our cities strewn with garbage everywhere some homeless bums decide to set up their tents, and it's okay to shit on the streets in SF, but heaven forbid someone does it out in the "wilderness"?

And I thought the retarded "fairness" arguments were just for kids!

 

[tzrider]

This. That tree which is actually a succulent looks to have fallen and twisted slightly. The claim is they were cut down with a chainsaw not a hatchet. Also claims of trails. No evidence of trails or multiple trees. Just this one image that even if it was cut looks like it could have been done with a hatchet years ago.

The only place I've read a claim that the trees were cut down with chainsaw is your posts. The news articles I've seen have all simply said the trees were cut down.

The picture we've been arguing about shows a wedge chopped out of the side facing the camera. The rest of the tree looks like it was broken off after the cut was made.

 

[Abacinator]

Some say enviro nazis are executing this vandalism specifically so they can blame the OHV community...

This is utterly ridiculous.

 

[KWeezyXB12]

The only place I've read a claim that the trees were cut down with chainsaw is your posts. The news articles I've seen have all simply said the trees were cut down.

The picture we've been arguing about shows a wedge chopped out of the side facing the camera. The rest of the tree looks like it was broken off after the cut was made.

it looks like it could have turned when it fell too :dunno like imagine flipping the fallen tree 180 degrees and it appears to fit back in place. either way we've gotten off topic and it was my fault for not clarifying the actual subject. i believe we have a case of assholes here. the point is its being placed on us. dirt bike riding, 4x4 ohv people. its issues like this the get our places to ride taken away from us. there is 0 proof that these trails were "cut" by 4x4 enthusiast or any real evidence. natgeo even put something out then retracted their article and re wrote it and put up a different image. no one talks about the 300 guys that went out into the desert and other areas 2 weeks ago to clean up after all the campers and "gun enthusiasts" who left behind tvs, microwaves, water heaters and all sorts of crap blown to shreds

 

[mlm]

it looks like it could have turned when it fell too :dunno like imagine flipping the fallen tree 180 degrees and it appears to fit back in place. either way we've gotten off topic and it was my fault for not clarifying the actual subject. i believe we have a case of assholes here. the point is its being placed on us. dirt bike riding, 4x4 ohv people. its issues like this the get our places to ride taken away from us. there is 0 proof that these trails were "cut" by 4x4 enthusiast or any real evidence. natgeo even put something out then retracted their article and re wrote it and put up a different image. no one talks about the 300 guys that went out into the desert and other areas 2 weeks ago to clean up after all the campers and "gun enthusiasts" who left behind tvs, microwaves, water heaters and all sorts of crap blown to shreds

Agreed with the bolded part. :thumbup

Like it or not people are going to interpret events in a manner that reinforce their preconceptions.

 

[tzrider]

its issues like this the get our places to ride taken away from us. there is 0 proof that these trails were "cut" by 4x4 enthusiast or any real evidence. natgeo even put something out then retracted their article and re wrote it and put up a different image. no one talks about the 300 guys that went out into the desert and other areas 2 weeks ago to clean up after all the campers and "gun enthusiasts" who left behind tvs, microwaves, water heaters and all sorts of crap blown to shreds

I agree with all this. The story as written is making headlines because it is associated (rightly or wrongly) with the current government shutdown.

 

[Butch]

How is this misleading (for people not already predisposed)? What is speculative?

All I see are reports that people are damaging park land. It happens all the time and sucks. It's probably why the CORVA link the OP posted mentioned they were doing a "cleanup" day.

There are lots of implications to draw of who is at fault, but it seems like you're coloring this in a defensive manner, presuming it is an attack against responsible OHV enthusiasts.

This is speculative:
“Joshua trees were actually cut down in order to make new roads.”

 

[Kestrel]

This is speculative:
“Joshua trees were actually cut down in order to make new roads.”

The National Park Service says it isn't speculative.

https://www.nps.gov/jotr/learn/news...-temporarily-close-for-cleanup-and-repair.htm

While the vast majority of those who visit Joshua Tree National Park do so in a responsible manner, there have been incidents of new roads being created by motorists and the destruction of Joshua trees in recent days that have precipitated the closure. Law enforcement rangers will continue to patrol the park and enforce the closure until park staff complete the necessary cleanup and park protection measures.

And specifically FROM that "Fake News" website ...

"There are about a dozen instances of extensive vehicle traffic off roads and in some cases into wilderness. We had destruction of government property with the cutting of chains and locks for people to access campgrounds," park Superintendent David Smith told National Parks Traveler.
"We've never seen this level of out-of-bounds camping. Every day-use area was occupied every evening. Joshua trees were actually cut down in order to make new roads."

If you want to know more about him...
https://www.nps.gov/jotr/learn/news/david-smith-named-as-joshua-tree-superintendent.htm

Or is NPS.gov a FAKE NEWS website with FAKE RANGERS?

The NPS.gov December 31st closure notice also hints at illegal activity & off roading.

In addition to human waste in public areas, driving off road and other infractions that damage the resource are becoming a problem.

Try READING. Yes, it's just a few bad apples. The Park Service also gives thanks to the large community of folks that are assisting.

Superintendent David Smith said, “I want to extend a sincere thanks to local businesses, volunteer groups, and tribal members who have done their best to assist in picking up litter and helping maintain campgrounds. This is no reflection on their efforts and the park is very fortunate to have a community that exhibits the kind of care and concern witnessed over the last week.” Smith also noted that most visitors are respectful of the park and the facilities within.

 

[Brokenlink]

I'm actually curious where it blames the off-roading community. Because all I see is that it says trees and locks were cut down to create new roads. What does that have to do with CORVA or the "offroading community"?

This is the closest I can find and it merely says people 4 wheeled to s specific spot:

"One place that saw traffic was around Joshua Tree's Live Oak area, which is not far from the north entrance to the park.

“We had some pretty extensive four-wheel driving around the entire area to access probably our most significant tree in the park," Smith said. "We have this hybrid live oak tree that is deciduous. It is one of our kind of iconic trees inside the park. People were driving to it and camping under it. Through the virgin desert to get to this location. That would probably be a quarter-mile or so around the rock formation that is there.”

https://www.nationalparkstraveler.o...close-cleanup-repairs-vandalism-illegal-roads

 

[Climber]

How about the Real Problem is a Few Assholes on both side?

That's usually how it is with most things, the vast majority of people on both sides of any issue are decent people, but there are a few assholes who take it too far, each giving their 'side' a bad name.

The best solution is for each side to take out their own trash and not defend the Assholes on their own side, but that rarely happens, at least not in a consistent manner. Instead they collectively defend their own assholes while condemning the assholes (and the whole group) on the other side.

 

[KWeezyXB12]

All I was saying is that they never proved people were cutting trails. They provided images of a fallen tree and a campsite. No trails. No tracks. Where are those pictures? It's fake news because it's being pinned on the ohv community with no evidence. No doubt there have been some problems. Numerous websites and news outlets have put it on 4x4 enthusiats. Just like some gang banger shoots someone. Now it's a problem for responsible gun owners and they get a negative light pointed at them followed by more laws and regulations.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/joshua-trees-shutdown_us_5c39adb0e4b0922a21d527cb "The reason for the felled trees was to make way for off-roading vehicles, it was reported"


"Eugene Gu, MD
✔
@eugenegu
Replying to @realDonaldTrump
While Trump was at the southern border doing a propaganda video with federal employees working without pay, he must have missed the fact that Americans cut down two precious Joshua trees at Joshua Tree National Park. They did it to go off-road during the government shutdown."

this is just one of many tweets from people who have influence over a good number of people who read their nonsense.


this is how people are perceiving the news and re tweeting it. ONCE AGAIN THE SAME IMAGE BEING USED AND NO PROOF OF DESTRUCTIVE OFF ROAD USE.

 

[byke]

Head down the Rubicon sometime. Trash and endless bullet casings. It's definitely a people thing, but 4x4'ers are people and they leave shit on the trail. I find beer cans on singletrack out at Foresthill. It's those loud mf'ers with $12k KTM's, $70k diesels and 30ft Attitude 5th wheels. Driving through Sac the other day, the center divide is littered with McDonald's garbage and bottles of piss. People are awful and there is no group out there worth defending.

 

[KWeezyXB12]

Head down the Rubicon sometime. Trash and endless bullet casings. It's definitely a people thing, but 4x4'ers are people and they leave shit on the trail. I find beer cans on singletrack out at Foresthill. It's those loud mf'ers with $12k KTM's, $70k diesels and 30ft Attitude 5th wheels. Driving through Sac the other day, the center divide is littered with McDonald's garbage and bottles of piss. People are awful and there is no group out there worth defending.

we all have our village assholes.trust me afew of us that stay after everyone has left to clean up at the stony trips can vouch. the only problem is lack of evidence. thats it. we want the trails and the damage done by 4x4s produced instead of a 3rd party source that apparently is quoting a park official and reproducing the same 2 images. one where a tree looks like it toppled over to high winds. it broke at the top.

 

[byke]

Yeah, maybe not true this time, but it's true so often that it doesn't bother me. Article says "some asshole does something on the trail" and it's like, of course some asshole does something on the trail. Anyone that's been on a trail knows that assholes do asshole things on the trail. What I'm waiting for is to get popped for open container for picking up some asshole's beer can on the trail, because that's the kind of place we live in.

 

[KWeezyXB12]

Yeah, maybe not true this time, but it's true so often that it doesn't bother me. Article says "some asshole does something on the trail" and it's like, of course some asshole does something on the trail. Anyone that's been on a trail knows that assholes do asshole things on the trail. What I'm waiting for is to get popped for open container for picking up some asshole's beer can on the trail, because that's the kind of place we live in.

im waiting to get popped for my stock exhaust produced in a mexican black tar heroin warehouse on a loud car. Its not that loud but it will get your attention and thats all they need for pc

 

[Kestrel]

im waiting to get popped for my stock exhaust produced in a mexican black tar heroin warehouse on a loud car. Its not that loud but it will get your attention and thats all they need for pc

What the fuck?

Do yourself a favor, and save some face by asking mods to lock this thread.

All I was saying is that they never proved people were cutting trails. They provided images of a fallen tree and a campsite. No trails. No tracks. Where are those pictures?

The word of the quoted word of the main park superintendent isn't good enough for you? You think they WANT to close the park and have to deal with this shit?

It's fake news because it's being pinned on the ohv community with no evidence. No doubt there have been some problems. Numerous websites and news outlets have put it on 4x4 enthusiats. Just like some gang banger shoots someone. Now it's a problem for responsible gun owners and they get a negative light pointed at them followed by more laws and regulations.

:facepalm

Also, mods?... Please banish this shit to the political forum?

.. Please?