Does gas quality matter?

[mrmarklin]

I mean, of course it does. But more so, is there such a thing as "bad gas" today in California, or the U.S.? That is, from a commercial gas station (not that rusty can in the back of your friends shed).

To here tell it, everyone gets their gas from everyone, branding is just that -- branding, and the only real distinction is perhaps the additives that may be added to the gas. And even then, those are added at the station, not the refinery.

Or I have it all wrong, Franks Gas is actually selling old 85 octane gas pumped out of aging shrimp boats that last fueled up in Costa Rica, vs Brand Name is made solely by men in white coats in artisan barrels, and aged until they develop an oaky smoothness.

Just curious the state of the modern gasoline distribution industry.

I'm in a rural area, and once in a while I'll notice what seems to be a bad batch. I gas up wherever, and some of the stations are fairly small.

Nothing scientific, but on occasion I've noticed minor losses of power or occasional "missing". After a fillup elsewhere this goes away.

 

[EastBayDave]

Couple of gallons?

Gas stations usually have two tanks. One low grade and one high. From those two tanks the pump will blend anything inbetween. From what I understand, the tanks are plumbed to the pump, but what is in the 8ft of hose going to the nozzle is left over from the guy before.
Assume an internal hose diameter of 1/2 inch and a lenth of 96 inches.
3.14x0.25inx0.25in=0.2
0.2square inx 96in=19.2cubic inches which is .08gallons
So .08 gallons of crap in with your good stuff.
EDIT:
Assuming 3/4 inch internal hose diameter and a ten foot hose
3.14x0.375x0.375=0.442
0.442x120=53.04 which is 0.23gallons
0.23gal of 87+3gal of 93=
(20.1 +279)/3.23=92.6 octane assuming the two fuels used the same calculations to achieve their octane rating. (Some race fuels use different methods, but regular vs premium should be the same.
The only real assumption made here is the length of the hose, which I assume would vary depending on the station. Still doesn't seem to make that much of a difference

Well I'm no expert; but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last ni....:wtf

Grew up around Dad's gas station; later he had six stations. Mobil/76/Exxon. Used to hang out w/the pump guy when bored & watched him rebuild dozens of pumps. I -think- I asked him how long/how much one day? He said 15' & 2 gallons, but this was back in the 70's. Don't know todays standards?

Typical stations had three tanks, low, medium, & High Octane. Don't remember two tanks mixed. Hmmm....

Back in the day....rebuilt me 1st engine there (350c.i. Chev), then learned everything else brakes, etc. But back then, bikes were faster than cars, so I switched from 4wheels (65'GTO) to 2wheels, dirt to street....:teeth

 

[lastblast]

I always run Chevron, And here is why.
Example, I had issues with my 999r not starting, I tried everything and could not get it to turn over fast enough to fire up. I got tired of working on it and I had dumped hundreds of dollars into it to no avail. After sitting for almost 3 years I took it to a friend in San Jose who said he could fix it. He replaced the parts that needed to be replaced and said it fired right up 1st try.
I asked if he had drained the old fuel, he replied no, he started it with what was in there.
I have a lot of things in my garage I use seasonally, and sometimes I lose track of time how long they sit but what I have found with Chevron is that it rarely goes bad.
There have been a couple other things told to me by dealers, like Toyotas having issues with a additive out there that most Chevrons don’t have. Also was told by dealer that I was at that millage were I needed my injectors checked, he also asked what I ran for fuel, when I told him Chevron he Oh, ok, your good then.
Its more expensive, but my hope is that it will save me down the road on injector repairs, fuel lines and so on and so on.

 

[DReg350]

My bike has a factory decal that says "87 Octane Only" Something like that. I've always used premium on ALL my other bikes. Took awhile to get use to. :laughing

On the bike, if I have a choice, I'm a Chevron guy. But, I'm also fine with 76, and Shell. In the sticks... I'll take whatever I can get. :thumbup

 

[WWWobble]

Who's actually had pre detonation occur in their street bike?

Lower octane=more power.

Me.

Hot day, stock FZ-1, doing some slow tight stuff and some "slow and hope to go" dirt so engine was also hot. Definitely heard "pinging" using Chevron 87. I also heard it later that day, still hot, but at 2 lane highway speeds. I now use 91, and do not hear "pinging," but I admit I haven't used 87 in it since that experience.

Never heard "pinging" from FJR no matter how hot or loaded, yet Yamaha calls for 87 as a minimum for both engines.

Maybe more important here is "clean." EFI isn't tolerant of dirt or the more technical term "spooge." My hunch is high volume stations are where fuel injected bikes should get their fuel. And Tier 1 supposedly guarantees decent additive packages.

WWWobble

 

[Pluot]

I don't know all that much about bikes so I just asked my mechanic and he told me to always fuel with top quality. He told me the engine would last longer and perform better. Kinda like putting good oil in your bike. So I always put in 91 even though my bike manual says 87 is fine. Also he suggested I fuel at Chevron, 76 and thirdly Shell. Shell is the closest to my work so I just go to Shell. However, I have noticed that after consistently putting in 91 then switching to 87 once to see if it was really making any kind of difference.. my bike just did not feel the same riding. Same to be said about switching gas stations. I would occasionally go to the Mobil close to my house, but I stopped doing that altogether since I would notice the engine wouldn't perform the same.

 

[Ogier le Danois]

A lot of "pinging" is simply an exhaust leak at the headers.

 

[Ogier le Danois]

I use 91 because the manual says so but otherwise would put in the cheapest that it called for.I've not had a single issue in my life that I can relate back to fueling.

I've had a few problems over the years. The DR650 seemed to be sensitive to gasoline. I can recall 2 occasions where I had to drain the tank and refill to get ride of the odd running/cutting out. I think it was ethanol/water related.

 

[corndog67]

I tend to run premium in my KTM, whatever brand I happen across, I haven't noticed any difference between them. If I run rego in it, it pings. I was told to run Primo in my Cadillac, that if I run rego, it turns back the timing if it detects pinging and I'd get lower gas mileage.

As for engine longevity, I'm not keeping any bike past 60k, usually much less, and around 100k for any car or truck, someone else can worry about how long it lives.

 

[mrmarklin]

I don't know all that much about bikes so I just asked my mechanic and he told me to always fuel with top quality. He told me the engine would last longer and perform better. Kinda like putting good oil in your bike. So I always put in 91 even though my bike manual says 87 is fine. Also he suggested I fuel at Chevron, 76 and thirdly Shell. Shell is the closest to my work so I just go to Shell. However, I have noticed that after consistently putting in 91 then switching to 87 once to see if it was really making any kind of difference.. my bike just did not feel the same riding. Same to be said about switching gas stations. I would occasionally go to the Mobil close to my house, but I stopped doing that altogether since I would notice the engine wouldn't perform the same.

Going up to Canada last summer,some pumps had 93 octane. I noticed a positive difference, even on a Harley!:thumbup

 

[enki]

I don't know this for sure, but I bet that refinery in Martinez supplies fuel to almost all the Bay Area stations regardless of brand.

http://blogs.platts.com/2010/08/23/unbranded_vs_br/

 

[FreeRyde]

Run what your manual states as the ignition timing/ curve/ spark are based upon that rating. Running higher octane will actually make it run *worse* and less efficient.
(Source, I dated a girl who's Father was a Chevron engineer and big block engine builder, and I've watched a bunch of youtube videos)

Cept if you ride a Hardly. Then run high octane, as the poor motor needs all the help it can get, odds are that the motor is running hotter than it was designed to do...

Stay away from Arco

Chevron is great
76 is hit or miss
Shell is good

I am great

 

[stangmx13]

butt dynos are not accurate and they frequently make up results that arent actually there.

 

[enki]

Run what your manual states as the ignition timing/ curve/ spark are based upon that rating. Running higher octane will actually make it run *worse* and less efficient.
(Source, I dated a girl who's Father was a Chevron engineer and big block engine builder, and I've watched a bunch of youtube videos)

Cept if you ride a Hardly. Then run high octane, as the poor motor needs all the help it can get, odds are that the motor is running hotter than it was designed to do...

Stay away from Arco

Chevron is great
76 is hit or miss
Shell is good

I am great[/QUOTE

Do you know where arco fuel is refined as opposed to Chevron?

 

[TheRobSJ]

butt dynos are not accurate and they frequently make up results that arent actually there.

Butt dynos frequently fabricate results strictly to benefit the owner of the butt's ego.

Back when it was new, the intake to have for the C5 Z06 if you didn't want to invest the time/money in the VeraRam setup was some piece of shit called a Sidewinder or something like that. And sure, without a baffled factory air box in place, it certainly was louder. And that extra input on the senses moves the needles on the ol' butt dyno. However....on a real dyno, the car put 356hp to the rollers with the stock airbox and filter versus 356hp with the supposed best aftermarket inlet and filter setup at the time. But the fucking thing cost almost $500! So you tell yourself that "hey at least it's lighter and it sounds cool" to justify it since you no longer get to claim it makes 30hp more like everyone else on the forums including the manufacturer has been saying.

 

[FreeRyde]

Do you know where arco fuel is refined as opposed to Chevron?

If I remember correctly, Arco does not have it's own refinery here in California.
Also, Arco is not top tier and runs more ethanol than other companies. Also, it's non-oxygenated. Just stay away from that garbage if you ride a motorcycle.

Really, the gas companies run the same fuel, but the additives (or lack there of) make the difference.
So even if Arco buys gas from Chevron, they are NOT getting Chevron "Techron" gas. That's for sure.

 

[GAJ]

If I remember correctly, Arco does not have it's own refinery here in California.
Also, Arco is not top tier and runs more ethanol than other companies. Also, it's non-oxygenated. Just stay away from that garbage if you ride a motorcycle.

Really, the gas companies run the same fuel, but the additives (or lack there of) make the difference.
So even if Arco buys gas from Chevron, they are NOT getting Chevron "Techron" gas. That's for sure.

Both Arco and Costco improved their additive packages in 2014 and are now Top Tier.

 

[dravnx]

I don't know all that much about bikes so I just asked my mechanic and he told me to always fuel with top quality. He told me the engine would last longer and perform better. Kinda like putting good oil in your bike. So I always put in 91 even though my bike manual says 87 is fine. Also he suggested I fuel at Chevron, 76 and thirdly Shell. Shell is the closest to my work so I just go to Shell. However, I have noticed that after consistently putting in 91 then switching to 87 once to see if it was really making any kind of difference.. my bike just did not feel the same riding. Same to be said about switching gas stations. I would occasionally go to the Mobil close to my house, but I stopped doing that altogether since I would notice the engine wouldn't perform the same.

Top quality does not mean higher octane. You're wasting your money. Higher octane means more additive was added to prevent preignition in higher compression engines. You should be looking for top tier gas in the octane rating the manufacturer recommends. The difference you felt was psychosomatic. Your butt dyno does not work.

 

[yodaisgod]

Someone's engineer of a father should be chiming in soon....

 

[DReg350]

2015 Analytical Report on Consumer Gasoline Choices -Michael Stanley - Cleveland State University

Figure 3
: Top Tier gasoline logo Source: http://www.autoguide.com

All gasoline retailers can apply for Top Tier status, “Once a fuel marketer has submitted their performance testing results, the data is reviewed by all of the automotive sponsors against the performance specification limits and is either a Pass or a Fail. If a Pass, the fuel marketer will be given a TOP TIER license agreement” (Toptiergas.com). Several gasoline brands advertise their special additive packages as an effective method of boosting vehicle power and effi
ciency while cleanings and maintaining engine parts:

5.2 List of Top Tier Brands
Table 1: U.S. Top Tier Brands

76 Stations Conoco BP
ARCO Aloha Petroleum CountryMark
Entec Stations Exxon Holiday Stationstores
Ohana Fuels Phillips 66 Kwik Trip / Kwik Star
Tri-Par Oil Co. Shell SuperAmerica
Quik Trip Scheirl Oil Road Ranger
Chevron Mobil Hawaii Fueling Network
MFA Oil Co. Texaco Costco Wholesale
Express Convenience Centers