best way to gain confidence through twisties?

[GiorgioFurioso]

Re: Re: Re: Re: best way to gain confidence through twisties?

You'r confusing me...you sound as if I was directing my post at you. I was not. If you re-read my post, you'll see that your advice and my advice are not very far apart. I'm just trying to emphasize that riding with another person who will help you out in real time is the best way to go. Trying to learn with the help of Keith Code etc. is best when Keith Code (or one of his instructors) is actually there.

BTW, I plan to do one of his classes soon. Because I'd much rather put his concepts in to practice in a safe environment (i.e. NOT on public highways) with an experienced instructor.

The snowboarding example was nice and all, but I'm going to have to disagree a bit with your post as well. There's a big difference between trying to learn totally on your own and trying to learn with the help of people like Keith Code, David L. Hough, and others who have really studied how to ride safely.

And I didn't see anything in the original post about wanting to be a fast rider. I suppose maybe "not slow" kind of means that, but the rider seems to want confidence rather than speed.

I still stick by my advice:

 

[ScottRNelson]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: best way to gain confidence through twisties?

You're confusing me...you sound as if I was directing my post at you. I was not. If you re-read my post, you'll see that your advice and my advice are not very far apart.

The only point I'm trying to make is that it's possible to learn to ride well just using books rather than having to ride with other, more experienced riders or take lessons. The other methods are also good, just not the only way.


We haven't heard from the original poster again. I'm curious what good he's gotten from all of this advice.

 

[Hoologan]

You guys are all right. Obviously people learn in different ways. When one person may need hands on training from a professional, others can read books like TOTW, Total Control, Prof. MC, Sportbike Techniques, etc. and combine that with time in the saddle practicing and be just as well off.

Personally, I read those books and have 8,000 miles under my belt since July 2005. I feel as if I am doing fine, but I would like to persue professional direction now by means of track days and professional instruction to further hone my riding skills. You can't go wrong with reading the books, COMPREHENDING (very important) what it's saying, and applying the skills learned to practice. Take it slow, don't worry how you look, and you will start to feel more comfortable.

 

[NoGall]

Re: Re: Re: Re: best way to gain confidence through twisties?

It's all about the love baby, all about the love. When my rats work, I ride all the time, my cages just gather dust.

We need to go out again one of these days, do you Team Geritolians ever wait until a decent hour to get started?

Yah, man, I was just playing... Ride, ride, and ride some more. Read, read, and read some more. If you have extra $$, attend a track school or two.

The Geritols have been seeing some 9 to 10am start times. I doubt that will stay long once the weather warms up...

 

[Ha_725]

are there any links to read more on turning??
like steps, forms, etc...

 

[ScottRNelson]

are there any links to read more on turning??
like steps, forms, etc...

Try these: TOTW2 PM MPM

 

[CoorsLight]

Troo there's no subsitiute for seat time, unless you are practicing wrong. If you ride with bad habits, the more you practice them, the harder they are to get rid of when you really start to improve.

I'd say go out with good riders, and have them follow you, instead of you follow them. One really bad habit is to fixate on the movements of the rider in front, which will prevent you from learning how to "loosen" your eyes and turn your head.

Three main things to look out for is:
1. Relax your arms and hands.
2. Open the throttle--just barely--as soon as possible.
3. Keep the chin pointed thru the turn.

BTW, didn't you get that steering damper? Not helping much at this point, huh?:teeth

 

[a1yola]

thanks for all the advice guys! To answer a few of your guys' questions, YES, I ma selling the bike. But during the down time, I will be able to use a couple other bikes.

I definitely do not puch myself. The last time I rode, my buddy pushed himself to try and keep up with more experienced riders and he bailed:wow Right when I saw that I happen, I told him to stay at MY pace, which was a lot slower than the other guys. I certainly feel more comfortable when heading down the same road on the way home. I guess its because I have a feel for the turns and am able to relax more, which, from what you guys are saying, is one of the key concepts...relaxing.

When turning, I do turn my head to look the direction that Im heading, but I get bervous thinkning that I may have not seen something in thr road while looking ahead, which then makes me look straight again, distracting my concentration to look ahead. That is definitely something I will be working on.

As far as leaning, I tend to slide my ass of the seat, but i still dont seem to get very low. One of the more experienced guys was riding behind me and said that since I wasnt leaning enough, it caused me to take turns a lot slower than Im capable of. SO next time im out there, I'll try to relax my arms, control my throttle, look ahead, and go.

I will try to ride as much as possible...but I think I am capable of gaining confidence as long as I follow the techniques you all have adviced me to do. Thanks:teeth

 

[Yody]

When turning, I do turn my head to look the direction that Im heading, but I get bervous thinkning that I may have not seen something in thr road while looking ahead, which then makes me look straight again, distracting my concentration to look ahead. That is definitely something I will be working on.

As far as leaning, I tend to slide my ass of the seat, but i still dont seem to get

I know exactly what you mean about the "looking at the ground thing" This only should last for a little, at first this is normal, but when you start going faster, everything is happening faster and looking ahead gets a lot easier. Its when you are going slow it is distracting to look ahead, but when u get going it will become natural.

You might try countersteering harder to get the bike to initially lean harder/go down, so it will be lower and the weight of your body will keep it leaning through the turn. Just remember to be all setup before the turn

 

[CoorsLight]

When turning, I do turn my head to look the direction that Im heading, but I get bervous thinkning that I may have not seen something in thr road while looking ahead, which then makes me look straight again, distracting my concentration to look ahead. That is definitely something I will be working on.

Learn to "loosen" or "unfocus" your eyes. You should be able to pay attention to the road way up ahead, as well as the road right in front of you by not focusing on either one. Try watching TV out of the corner of your eye. Don't focus on one depth. Unfocus so you see everything at once, and your eyes don't dart back and forth.

Seriously if I was you I wouldn't distract myself thinking about body position yet. You aren't going fast enough for it to make much of a difference unless you are "dirtbiking" it. Keep your ass on the seat spend that attention on eyes, arms, and throttle.

 

[zanshin]

I'm wondering if there are any techniques or practices that I, or anyone else, should do in order to gain more confidence when riding through the twisties.

I knew that I was slow, but I found out that I am REALLY slow compared to the other guys I rode with yesterday. They said I need to start leaning off the bike more and to accelerate faster through the turns. My problem is that when in the turn, I get kind of scared to accelerate hard...dont know why. Also, I tend to slow down before turns, way more than anyone else. My other problem is getting my ass off the seat. I try to do it, but can't seem to get it off when leaning to the right...this is getting frustrating.

I wont have a bike for a couple months, but I'd like to have a boosted confidence level when I get back on the road.
Any suggestions:confused

Trade in for a Honda Civic.











With CVT.

 

[SVsick50]

When you get your bike again... go to a trackday/trackschool. Yeah, I know it sounds crazy at first, but trackriding is a safe, controlled environment with dozens of people willing to give pointers without any attitudes. By the end of the day, you are riding in and around groups, feeling comfortable getting passed, and getting the feel of leaning the bike.

In my experience, racing was the pinnacle of my motorcycle confidence. I'm not saying you need to do that, but learning in a controlled environment is best.

Seat time is good, but what you're trying to build is skill, and even riders with tons of seat time may not necessarily be the most skilled riders: nobody is there to teach them the rights and wrongs of their technique. As a rider who is in the twisties at least 4X a week riding at a spirited pace, I have seen many "seat time" riders make very stupid mistakes.

The last thing you need (if you're as nervous as you appear to be) is to be on HWY 9 and have kneedraggers buzz by you in the triple digits. That was my experience on the twisties when I first started hitting them regularly, however I had plenty of motorcycle experience before then for the basic mechanics of it all.

Just remember when you first learned how to ride a bicycle: did you do it in the middle of downtown San Francisco in peak traffic? Or did you do it on some side street or schoolyard with an adult holding you up and guiding the along... probably the latter. The same goes with motorcycles: get proper instruction and internalize the proper skill set to be smooth and confident, and speed just comes naturally.

 

[artyom666]

I didn't read through the whole thing - basically go at your own pace. Don't ride with your friends, or don't follow them too closely.
Take your time, look through the corner, don't fight the bike. Better slow than crashed.
I noticed on Mines a lot of guys race in packs of 5-6 bikes. If one of them looses, or takes corner on a wrong line - they all gonna go. I seen that.

 

[Sidewalk]

A lot of posts that I don't feel like going through, so just my opinions.


1 - slow down
2 - track schools
3 - find new people to ride with.

Anyone who says to ride more aggressive to keep up shouldn't be helping you to ride better. It is one thing to help someone correct poor form that ends up making them faster, another to encourage you to go faster. Never go faster then you are comfortable. There are times when I may only ride at half of my capacity just because it doesn't feel right at the time. Doesn't mean I don't enjoy the ride, I wouldn't enjoy the ride otherwise.

 

[cardinal03]

I didn't read the whole thread, so I don't know if this has already been said, but in my opinion if your goal is to be fast, your thinking is completely backwards.

Your goal should be to be smooth and controlled, the rest, particularly speed and confidence, will come by itself. Always better to arrive an hour late in one piece than to never arrive at all.

 

[dvsdesigner]

I'm not trying to hijack this thread, buuuuttt....

Is there a good track day for people who are totally new to the track? Is there a FAQ site about Sears Pt. or Infineon or whatever it is?

I went down on the way up to 4 corners when I was JUST starting. I know, I know, awful idea to go to Alice's for a newb...

Cut to a year and 7,000 mi later and I still don't feel relaxed riding twisties. I don't even enjoy it in the slightest. :confused I commute on my bike, and feel comfortable going fast... just as long as it's in a relatively straight line. :teeth

Will I ever recover from my post-traumatic bs, or should I just give-up on the idea of ever enjoying a ride up to Alice's?

Is there such a thing as a motorcyclist that doesn't carve?:confused

:green Don't like the idea of another trip to Stanford ER. :green

 

[SVsick50]

I'm not trying to hijack this thread, buuuuttt....

Is there a good track day for people who are totally new to the track? Is there a FAQ site about Sears Pt. or Infineon or whatever it is?

I went down on the way up to 4 corners when I was JUST starting. I know, I know, awful idea to go to Alice's for a newb...

Cut to a year and 7,000 mi later and I still don't feel relaxed riding twisties. I don't even enjoy it in the slightest. :confused I commute on my bike, and feel comfortable going fast... just as long as it's in a relatively straight line. :teeth

Will I ever recover from my post-traumatic bs, or should I just give-up on the idea of ever enjoying a ride up to Alice's?

Is there such a thing as a motorcyclist that doesn't carve?:confused

:green Don't like the idea of another trip to Stanford ER. :green

Dude, not sure if you read my post, but:

When you get your bike again... go to a trackday/trackschool. Yeah, I know it sounds crazy at first, but trackriding is a safe, controlled environment with dozens of people willing to give pointers without any attitudes. By the end of the day, you are riding in and around groups, feeling comfortable getting passed, and getting the feel of leaning the bike.

In my experience, racing was the pinnacle of my motorcycle confidence. I'm not saying you need to do that, but learning in a controlled environment is best.

Seat time is good, but what you're trying to build is skill, and even riders with tons of seat time may not necessarily be the most skilled riders: nobody is there to teach them the rights and wrongs of their technique. As a rider who is in the twisties at least 4X a week riding at a spirited pace, I have seen many "seat time" riders make very stupid mistakes.

The last thing you need (if you're as nervous as you appear to be) is to be on HWY 9 and have kneedraggers buzz by you in the triple digits. That was my experience on the twisties when I first started hitting them regularly, however I had plenty of motorcycle experience before then for the basic mechanics of it all.

Just remember when you first learned how to ride a bicycle: did you do it in the middle of downtown San Francisco in peak traffic? Or did you do it on some side street or schoolyard with an adult holding you up and guiding the along... probably the latter. The same goes with motorcycles: get proper instruction and internalize the proper skill set to be smooth and confident, and speed just comes naturally.

There are plenty of different trackschools available - most of the big trackday organizers have a school i.e. Keigwins. *Shameless Plug* I know we'll be having a meeting this weekend looking into organizing another school day for SuperMoto riders.

I think you will recover from the post traumatic BS, it's just that you have to build the correct skill set for that style of riding - and a trackday/trackschool is a good way to go.

 

[darkie]

On the visual aspect of riding, I very much agree with the concept of looking into the corner.

The question is when do you look and how far into the corner?

A good rule of thumb is this sequence:

1) Approach the corner and look at where you are going to turn the bike (your turn point).

2) Once you are just about to your turn point and know you will make it, look in towards the apex and then turn it.

3) As you approach the apex and know that you are going to hit it, shift your eyes to the exit.

You are in effect staying 1/2 a step ahead of yourself visually. This does not mean that you fixate on the turn point, apex and exit, you definitley want to have a wide view and take in the other aspects of the road at the same time especially in traffic and with other riders on the road.

This goes with the saying: "You go where you look."

 

[Samurang]

On the visual aspect of riding, I very much agree with the concept of looking into the corner.

The question is when do you look and how far into the corner?

A good rule of thumb is this sequence:

1) Approach the corner and look at where you are going to turn the bike (your turn point).

2) Once you are just about to your turn point and know you will make it, look in towards the apex and then turn it.

3) As you approach the apex and know that you are going to hit it, shift your eyes to the exit.

You are in effect staying 1/2 a step ahead of yourself visually. This does not mean that you fixate on the turn point, apex and exit, you definitley want to have a wide view and take in the other aspects of the road at the same time especially in traffic and with other riders on the road.

This goes with the saying: "You go where you look."

+1 on that.

 

[Traq]

Ride your own pace. Never try to keep up with people. Enjoy your ride.

The title of the post would more appropriately have been "best way to become an idiot through twisties" IMO since it contained nothing that indicated you weren't already confident. In other words, just because you're riding slower than some dumbshit that doesn't know where the track is and is more than likely outriding his abilities and sight distances, doesn't mean you lack confidence.

Hey, I got passed by a Harley a couple weeks ago up on 128 in the twisties. Does it matter? No. Did my dick shrivel up and fall off? No. Was I having a nice ride? Yes. Shocking, huh? :rolleyes

/rantoff